This "resting at 9:05 AM" business

[D.Shaffer]

I am not advocating one-true-wayism. However, I am suggesting that there has been and is going to be a shift in the default model of play for D&D (this IS NOT an opinion -- this is fact) that changes the game, and not for the better (THIS is the part that's opinion).

You might not like the change, but it's obvious that enough people have disliked this aspect enough that they felt the need to change it. You might not like the idea, and you obviously feel it doesnt fit your play style, but that doesnt mean it wont improve the game for a vast majority of us. Consider that Wizards IS a business and needs to sell the game to as many people as they can. Anything that improves the game for that majority is something they're going to implement, even if a vocal minority of players dont agree with it.

 

[Phlebas]

While I agree with you here, I do perceive one way in which "per-encounter" abilities could be made more "strategic," and that's if battles are more dynamic. You start fighting the goblin guards, they take cover and start shooting, you throw your once-per-encounter Fireball spell... and *then* the wave of reinforcements shows up with the ogres. If it's still the same encounter, you don't get another Fireball, so you're stuck.

But the only way per-encounter resource management can be strategic is if there's a real element of "you don't know what you'll be facing next" within the encounter.

I foresee a lot of threads on defining when an encounter ends when 4E comes out........

seriously - if you're fighting a running battle to get back to the castle when the city walls fall- when does the encounter end, this street battle, this archer, this tavern you try to short cut through only to find the looters got there first. currently moving in and out of intitiative is pretty much up to the ref and noone complains too much if they get to re-roll sequence, but when it makes the difference between fireball / no fireball if the next ogre wanders around the corner just before the previous fight ends compared with just after then it becomes an issue. 5e will replace this with per minute rule presumable to avoid these kind of discussions

At the moment i'm sceptical on wether 4E will truly fix the issue wotc perceive is there, especially given that there seems a lot of disagreement on how serious an issue it truly is

just MHO

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Not really.

You seem to be ignoring the very definitions of the words, for instance. :\ Tactical is the situation/actions during one battle. Strategic is the overall combat situation of a mission/campaign/etc. and all the planning/coordination/tension that goes with it.

Righty-o. I agree. So why does 1 day cover a "mission/campaign/etc. and all the planning/coordination/tension that goes with it?"

Why not a month? Why not a week? Why not a year?

When I buy food and provisions for my army, I don't plan 1 day at a time. I plan a campaign, which might take months to come to fruition.

What is it about a resource which can be used once in any of, on average, 4 battles that makes it strategic? Isn't one which could be used once in any of, on average, 30 battles more strategic?

Where is the cut-off between "This is strategic" and "This is tactical," and why is it there other than "inertia"? What if a resource is only useable once every two battles? Is that no longer a strategic resource?

What if, in a given day, you only have one combat encounter? What if you have the powers to ensure that, in any day you desire, you will only have one combat encounter? Now, all your per-day resources are turned into per-encounter resources. Are they still strategic resources?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I foresee a lot of threads on defining when an encounter ends when 4E comes out........

Nah - if it's anything like their current rules systems, "Per Encounter" is shorthand for "It takes 1 minute of rest / meditation to regain these resources."

Accordingly, most of the time, you'll have all of them for every encounter because there's nothing stopping you from taking that brief period of rest.

seriously - if you're fighting a running battle to get back to the castle when the city walls fall- when does the encounter end, this street battle, this archer, this tavern you try to short cut through only to find the looters got there first.

If, at any point, you are able to spend 10 full-round actions being helpless, they'll recover.

Does that assuage your fears?

 

[WizarDru]

I foresee a lot of threads on defining when an encounter ends when 4E comes out........

Actually, there's already been considerable discussion on the topic here in the 4e forums. The two prevailing schools of thought are the SAGA way and the general common sense approach, both of which work for me.

 

[Hussar]

I've mentioned this before, but, there's an extremely easy mechanic to ensure that strategic considerations stay in the game. Simply create mechanics where the caster chooses a suite of abilities (spells, whatever) for the day. A couple of once/day big guns, a handful of /encounter abilities and a few /round abilities. Poof, done.

There, now, everyone's happy.

Something to remember is that spells are going to be changed. We know that. If nothing else, they'll change in caster level. I can easily see a stream of spells where the wizard gets X, Y and Z of /day, /encounter and /round abilities per day. His spellbook comes in when choosing his suite for the day.

 

[Imp]

I wonder if it would be easy to tack on a spell point system for the per-encounter abilities to introduce resource management, for those groups who wanted it. That is, easier than tacking it on to Vancian spells.

 

[Reynard]

I've mentioned this before, but, there's an extremely easy mechanic to ensure that strategic considerations stay in the game. Simply create mechanics where the caster chooses a suite of abilities (spells, whatever) for the day. A couple of once/day big guns, a handful of /encounter abilities and a few /round abilities. Poof, done.

There, now, everyone's happy.

Something to remember is that spells are going to be changed. We know that. If nothing else, they'll change in caster level. I can easily see a stream of spells where the wizard gets X, Y and Z of /day, /encounter and /round abilities per day. His spellbook comes in when choosing his suite for the day.

This is a pretty good compromise.

 

[Reynard]

I just had an interesting experience with this whole situation in last nights game. I am running ToEE (AD&D 1E) and after screwing around in town for entirely too long, the PCs head up to the moathouse at dawn. AFter a couple hours' walk, they get there and, as the module indicates, they are set upon by giant frogs before they even reach the gate.

Now, it didn't turn out that the wizard blew all of his spells, or everybody was down on hit points. The wizard cast no spells, and no one took more than 3 points of damage -- except the poor dwarf thief who ended up "hovering at death's door" by the end of the battle. Because no one chose to play a cleric, and the paladin can only heal 4 hp/day, and they only had enough money to bujy one healing potion for the excursion, they did, indeed, turn around at 9:05 AM and head back to town so they could rest for 4 days until the dwarf was healed.

We stopped there, because it was getting late, but it is definitely one of "those" situations that make you realize it isn't necessarily about taking care of your resources -- it is about having them in the first place. Very limited or no healing for a 1E party, in ToEE no less, is going to be an issue.

Just thought I'd share.