Those [2 damage types] +1 damage feats

[Mengu]

Then the wussy 8th level wizard wouldn't be doing 1d6+4 scorching bursts (+1 if they took the feat!!!)

Just to set this one straight, your 8th level wizard should be doing around 1d6+8 damage with the feat. +5 from 20 Int (including 2 stat increases), +2 from implement, +1 from feat. And as a controller, it's not fair to compare this to a Striker's damage output. If we compare it to a leader, an 8th level Warlord with longsword will be doing 1d8+8 damage. +5 from 20 Str, +2 from weapon, +1 from feat. Unfortunately for the Warlord he misses occasionally, whereas the wizard, as long as he can catch at least 2 opponents with the scorching burst will be doing more consistant damage to something each turn, though his choices are a bit more limited due to positioning.

 

[Xorn]

The ranger can do very easily: 2d10+8+1d6 every round without breaking a sweat. going through KoTS means hitting a kobold at least 4 times (~30 hp) with the wizards 1d6+int powers. Also, that burst 1 spell is not usable every time, it would hit the party all too often and so that means switching to cloud of daggers.

yeah your [W] stands for weapon. How about +1d4 damage from X power source?

You guys are not addressing the concern: +1 damage for 2 13+ stat requirements is lame. You might not even hit the right damage types when selecting your spells!

You add 2 to every stat as you level. Getting a stat to 13 by 21 means you have to invest one point in it. Two points invested gets you the 13's at 11. Three points and you can have the feat at level 1. You've got 22 to spend. Even with an 18 primary (before racial) you can still take two 13s. (And have them be 15s minimum, by epic feat time.)

Incidentally, that ranger has to hit twice in order to do 2d10. Sporting a 50% hit chance you're only going to average 1d10+d6, ~9 damage. There's also a solid chance the wizard will have a better chance to hit, not attacking AC.

 

[JasonZZ]

It seems to me (and I could easily be wrong here) that the +1 to two damage type feats are there to soften the blow of spreading your stats out. Normally your damage comes from your class's primary stat (Wis for clerics, either Con or Cha for warlocks, Int for wizards), and buying up less-used stats would require a sacrifice there. By taking the feat, you can spread your stats out, gaining versatility without as much of a hit to your damage output.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

The ranger can do very easily: 2d10+8+1d6 every round without breaking a sweat. going through KoTS means hitting a kobold at least 4 times (~30 hp) with the wizards 1d6+int powers.

Wizards are doing consistently more damage than rangers as long as there at least two people hanging out near each other. I'm not sure where you are getting 2d10+8+1d6. Your choices are either 1d10+4+1d6 or 2d10+1d6. You don't add stat mod to damage with twin strike. The average for no twin strike is 13, and 14.5 with twin strike. The average for a wizard is 8.5 per target, if there are two targets that goes up to 17. Not to mention what others have mentioned, a wizard gets more mileage out of those +1's due to hitting multiple targets quite often. The wizard damage is going to be slightly lower than the strikers because the strikers are going to be attacking one guy. No more ridiculous amount of damage AND hitting a ton of guys. You have to pick one now. As a compulsive wizard player, I'm happy about this.

 

[Obryn]

Do those feats beyond suck or what?

+1 damage with two 13 stat requirements?

Why couldn't they have been just +1[W] with one damage type?

Then the wussy 8th level wizard wouldn't be doing 1d6+4 scorching bursts (+1 if they took the feat!!!)

How about 2d6+4 scorching bursts? Even at 1st level that does not seem too powerful. Make a +1[W] for each damage type. So what. +1 for two damage types is uber lame.

Feats are way, way cheaper than in previous editions.

I'd say these are perfectly in line with all the other feats available at Heroic tier.

-O

 

[Nifft]

Feats are way, way cheaper than in previous editions.

I'd say these are perfectly in line with all the other feats available at Heroic tier.

Yeah, same here. PCs have more feats than before, and most feats are worth less than than before.

The extra damage feats like this are nice to have: they're worth a feat slot, but they're not usually worth planning your stats around -- unlike Spell Focus, which is so very, very, very much worth planning your stats around.

Cheers, -- N

 

[dasheiff]

I'm going to agree with the orginal poster but only about the stat requirements. It seems odd to force to stats like than and kind of makes your planning too complicated.

If you could mix and match which two stats and which two energy types made up the feat I think it'd be fine, but it seems odd that if you want to do a specific engery type you need to worry about a specific stat. (That didn't work for 3.0 psionic either). Clearly, the +1 DMG is right for a feat that only applies to maybe half your spells. I think it would also be fine without the stat requirements. I'm not really worried about someone taking them all and then getting +4 to a few spells that have 4 energy types. Then it just becomes a resonable investment in feats for more dmg instead of more skills, hp, etc.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

I'm going to agree with the orginal poster but only about the stat requirements. It seems odd to force to stats like than and kind of makes your planning too complicated.

If you could mix and match which two stats and which two energy types made up the feat I think it'd be fine, but it seems odd that if you want to do a specific engery type you need to worry about a specific stat. (That didn't work for 3.0 psionic either). Clearly, the +1 DMG is right for a feat that only applies to maybe half your spells. I think it would also be fine without the stat requirements. I'm not really worried about someone taking them all and then getting +4 to a few spells that have 4 energy types. Then it just becomes a resonable investment in feats for more dmg instead of more skills, hp, etc.

Feat bonuses don't stack, and while technically these are bonuses to two different types of damage, its still a feat bonus to damage. I think this means they don't stack. (also note that these feats scale, so if it allowed you do so, it'd be possible to get +12 damage at epic levels)

 

[Sadrik]

It is still lame and bent over in my book and yes the two 13 stat requirements are the biggest drawback, more so than only being +1 piddly damage.

Designing several characters and playing them. The wizard needs to maximize INT starting with an 18 or 20. (Why: shields and most of their powers key of REF) Leaving little else for secondary or tertiary stat combinations to pick up +1 damage feats that effect a couple spells at best.

 

[Ahglock]

If they did not have any stat requirements I think they would be occasionally picked to fit a theme for your character, but overall they would not seem necessary. With 2 13s needed I doubt they will ever be taken except when by a fluke you happen to have those 2 stats at 13.

Maybe +1dmg per die and I'd look at the feat, no I still wouldn't with 2 stats of 13 needed.