Thought Exercise: Give Bard Full BAB

[Kunimatyu]

Some friends and I were mulling around the general underpoweredness of Bards, when someone hit upon an intriguing solution:

Give the Bard full Base Attack Bonus, like a fighter.

(Now, they still have their d6 HD, the very low spell selection, and the decent-but-not-great weapon and armor proficiencies.)

Do you think this would make the bard playable? Ignore the "but only fighters/paladins etc should have full BAB!" impulse for a second(I sure had to!), and think about it mechanically.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I guess I don't see what's wrong with the bard as it is. Thing is, they're not really meant to be front-liners. They're a utility class, plain and simple and they're nice because they can really do it all. A bard's best bet is to use as much of his arsenal when in combat. Cast a spell or two, sing, and get into combat once the bruisers have picked their targets.

I think their medium BAB has less to do with their combat ability and more to do with everything else they can do. This makes Bard dipping really good, maybe too good. As a barbarian or a fighter I would sacrifice nothing to take a level of bard. I'd get lots of skills, a singing ability that gives me +1 to my attacks, big boosts to my Ref and Will saves and full BAB. Lose out on 4 or 5 hp? Not a big deal in the long run.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I guess I don't see what's wrong with the bard as it is. Thing is, they're not really meant to be front-liners... As a barbarian or a fighter I would sacrifice nothing to take a level of bard. I'd get lots of skills, a singing ability that gives me +1 to my attacks, big boosts to my Ref and Will saves and full BAB. Lose out on 4 or 5 hp? Not a big deal in the long run.

They would still only have light armor and a d6 HD. That doesn't scream "front-liner" to me.

Also, would Bard dipping really be too potent? You'd be giving up a d10 or d12 HD for a d6, and gaining a singing ability that would require you give up your attacks for a round for 3 rounds of +1 attack/+1 damage. You've got a point with the Reflex and Will thing, but that's not a problem with the idea as much as it's a problem with fighter "2 levels of everything" multiclassing in general.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

What would be the use of a full BAB if you don't have the hp to back it up? This would turn them into a sniper during combat otherwise they wouldn't be able to use the higher BAB. The Bard stats are kind of decieving when you look at just the chart. Once the Bard starts singing they basically have a full BAB. Still would be X behind the fighting classes (X = Inspire Courage Bonus) but they would have a regular full BAB - give or take.

 

[DestroyYouAlot]

I don't know that giving the bard a fighter BAB progression would make them over-powered, as it doesn't really play into their strengths: skills and magic. But does it really need to be done? They're hardly under-powered, but what they are (and are meant to be) is an all-around support character that can step to the front and shine in social situations. If you want a bard that is more of a front-line fighter, there is a fine multiclass system available, has been since 2000 or so. But, seriously, if the bard is coming across as under-powered in your campaign, is it possible that you're not giving them enough interpersonal and/or roleplaying situations to properly use their talents?

 

[Herobizkit]

They would still only have light armor and a d6 HD. That doesn't scream "front-liner" to me.

While it doesn't scream "front-liner" to you, this is actually the status quo is almost all of my games. For some reason, my group has evolved from the "sword and board/heavy armor" warriors and almost exclusively play light- or even no-armored finessy two-weapon fighting types.

This in mind, giving the Bard a full BAB would entice me to play them exclusively.

 

[Eccles]

I'd argue with giving them evasion at about 8th or 10th level. Just as a reward for surviving that long!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Eh, they're lovers, not fighters.

I don't see them really needing that BAB upgrade.

 

[Fishbone]

What? They sing battle hymns and war chants to pump up their enemies than lay the spell and shortbow smack down. Are Savage Bards "lovers"? Bards are the Enkidu to the measty character's Gilgamesh, not namby pambies. Oh, and if you give a Bard full BAB I'll never play a rogue again for as long as I live.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

They sing battle hymns and war chants to pump up their enemies than lay the spell and shortbow smack down.

So do the guys in Slayer, and I could probably take 'em all on with a squirt gun.

Yes, there is a big tradition of martial bards in legend...but few of them were truly warriors. Inspire others? Yes. Hold their own- briefly? Yes.

Wade through minions like a hot greatsword through unsalted kobold butter? Not so much.