Thought Exercise: Give Bard Full BAB

[Cheiromancer]

I've considered that too, but it makes them too good as a dipping class. If they got +19 BAB over 20 levels, though; that might work.

Maybe some kind of class variant would be a way of implementing it. Give up X in order to get +1 hp/bard level (maybe 2 hp/bard level?) and a BAB no less than bard level -1. X might be half your bardic music uses or something. Dunno.

 

[monboesen]

Bards definately do not need full BAB to hold their own. Hell, in effect their most basic song, inspire courage makes up for the difference between medium and full BAB and gives a damage boost as well.

Despite claims of the opposite bards are not weak at all, and can contribute to almost any situation in the game (bard archers and bard two weapon fighters are actually decent in combat).

 

[Gold Roger]

I like the idea of making the bard more of a fighter/arcanist archetype, but I totally disagree with the idea of giving them a fighter BAB.

I'd rather see them with a d8 HD and a more offensive spell list (give them some damage spells, self-protective spells and melee spells a la blades of fire- remove healing). Another idea would be to let them gain an increased benefit from their inspire courage.

 

[Felix]

More than BAB they need more spells per day. Sure, their Spells Known arn't bad, but when you can only cast 1 of your highest level spell per day - and that 2 levels after equivalent casters are getting the same spell - it hurts.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

If you're looking for something more martial, the Savage Bard in UA goes a pretty good way towards that. A few minor tweaks, a slightly different spell list, and you've got something different. I think it'd work pretty well too. But even that variant doesn't give full BAB, if I'm remembering correctly.

They would still only have light armor and a d6 HD. That doesn't scream "front-liner" to me.

Fighter 19/Bard 1 only has light armor and d6 HD? No way! And you can bet your butt I'll be singing in my mithral twilight full plate! And one standard action to gain some nice bonuses for at least the next 5 rounds? I'd sacrifice a feat and a few hitpoints for that. Add 3 more levels of bard and you get more spells, more bonuses to your poor saves, more skill points, 4 total uses of bardic music per day (maybe even some new songs too), all for the cost of three feats and a few hit points? I'd definitely do that.

I don't think bards need the full BAB. I just think they're underrated, and like any generalist class, people question their viability. I think their "jack of all trades" mentality is exactly what makes them not just viable, but great. But if you think giving them full BAB will help your game, do it. Tell us how it goes. I'm curious to see what crops up!

 

[Belen]

The fix for Bards is simple: Give them access to Wizard/Sorcerer spell list. This is what I do and it works nicely.

 

[DestroyYouAlot]

I've considered that too, but it makes them too good as a dipping class. If they got +19 BAB over 20 levels, though; that might work.

Maybe some kind of class variant would be a way of implementing it. Give up X in order to get +1 hp/bard level (maybe 2 hp/bard level?) and a BAB no less than bard level -1. X might be half your bardic music uses or something. Dunno.

Or - and, maybe I'm just whistling in the dark, here - TAKE A FIGHTER LEVEL. Or two. If you want a bard that fights better, you give up some of the bard's strengths - again, skills and magic - in exchange for HP and BAB, maybe a feat or two. There's a reason the two "spellcasting fighter" classes (the paladin and the ranger) don't get spells until 5th level - it doesn't balance out right for them to have spellcasting ability right out the gate.