thoughts about 3.5e

[shurai]

You know, at first I was annoyed with Wizards for coming out with a Revised edition of D&D so soon after the original release, especially when they're going to charge more money for a lot of the same material, and what some would call a mere 'bugfix' of their product. I sort of felt that the most moral thing to do would be to release updates for the basic game rules for free as errata and then to continue to make money by offering very well-written adventures/expansion books/settings. As Microsoft can tell you, the only way to make money by forcing people to upgrade is if you're the only game people are willing to play, and with RPGs there are many, many other good games we could turn to.

I thought, I'm not going to play 3.5e, and I'm sure as hell not going to buy the books: I'm not going to more than double my investment in D&D for a few bugfixes that ought to be released to the public in the first place. Not only do I fail to have the money to waste, but their behavior is a little underhanded. Hey, I thought, there's always alternatives to D&D in the first place.

Then I read somewhere that the rules changes are all going to be folded into the SRD. I'm not sure they'll follow through with it given the closedness of some parts of the d20 game, but if they do I'll be very impressed. I hope they realize that they'll make enough money no matter what happens if they do a good job on the revised books but don't withold the information from people who won't buy the revisions in any case. I'm glad they seem to understand that enabling people to play the game and making it easy to like the company is more important than squeezing every last short-term cent out of D&D and d20 players.

Being a strong advocate for open source software, at least with regards to getting one's work done (http://www.gnu.org/), I was very impressed by the wisdom of Wizards in releasing the SRD, and creating the OGL. Let's hope they continue to show that they understand that having an open game only improves their business, not to mention making a better game for everyone who plays it.

Now, if I could just get the Master of Orion 3 people to release their game for Linux. *sigh*

-S

 

[Ranger REG]

* Sighs *

I'm going to tell you what I told every complainent here or on Wizards board: no one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to buy. Trust me, because I would LOVE to have that job.

(When you hear so many voices like that, you can't help but think violent thoughts.)

If you are still happy with your current ruleset, then STICK with it.

As for the System Reference Document, yes there will be a revised version, but remember that this is a game designer's toolkit. You will only see a stripped-down version of the revised ruleset, plus missing stats that Wizards considered to be their own copyright (e.g., no Mind Flayer, no Yuan-Ti, etc.).

 

[The Little Raven]

You know, at first I was annoyed with Wizards for coming out with a Revised edition of D&D so soon after the original release, especially when they're going to charge more money for a lot of the same material, and what some would call a mere 'bugfix' of their product. I sort of felt that the most moral thing to do would be to release updates for the basic game rules for free as errata and then to continue to make money by offering very well-written adventures/expansion books/settings. As Microsoft can tell you, the only way to make money by forcing people to upgrade is if you're the only game people are willing to play, and with RPGs there are many, many other good games we could turn to.

What does morality have to do with business? Wizards is the leader in the roleplaying market, with D&D the clear winner of the RPG wars. Yes, there are other great games out there, but none of them are as popular and widespread as D&D, and they probably never will be.

And they are not charging MORE for the SAME material. The $20 price tag was a DISCOUNT from $30, so gamers would get into 3rd edition. The normal cost of all three books is $30.

3rd Edition Books
Player's Handbook (287 pages) 29.95
Dungeon Master's Guide (256 pages) 29.95
Monster Manual (224 pages) 29.95
Total Page Count: 767

3rd Edition Revised Books (3.5)
Player's Handbook (320 pages) 29.95
Dungeon Master's Guide (320 pages) 29.95
Monster Manual (320 pages) 29.95
Total Page Count: 960

Same price for higher page counts and better material.

And anybody that calls this revision a mere "bug-fix" should do well to actually read the information they've given us so far, since it addresses every concern you've brought up.

I thought, I'm not going to play 3.5e, and I'm sure as hell not going to buy the books: I'm not going to more than double my investment in D&D for a few bugfixes that ought to be released to the public in the first place. Not only do I fail to have the money to waste, but their behavior is a little underhanded. Hey, I thought, there's always alternatives to D&D in the first place.

Ought to be released? Frankly, WotC doesn't have to release a single goddamn update, errata document or rules fix. They could just churn out rules, with no updates or revisions, and the game community be damned.

Remember something, buddy. Wizards owns D&D and they don't have to give us a damn thing for free. They could increase the price of all their books, if they chose. Hell, they could stop publishing the game altogether, and there's not a goddamn thing that we could dp about it.

Then I read somewhere that the rules changes are all going to be folded into the SRD. I'm not sure they'll follow through with it given the closedness of some parts of the d20 game, but if they do I'll be very impressed. I hope they realize that they'll make enough money no matter what happens if they do a good job on the revised books but don't withold the information from people who won't buy the revisions in any case. I'm glad they seem to understand that enabling people to play the game and making it easy to like the company is more important than squeezing every last short-term cent out of D&D and d20 players.

Oh, you mean you read the information about the SRD after you formed an uneducated opinion? Good for you.

And something you people never seem to understand. They are under no obligation whatsoever to release any of their content as open source. NONE. NADA. They are doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. If they didn't release the SRD as a free download, they would still make a ton of money, because many people will still buy the books.

Being a strong advocate for open source software, at least with regards to getting one's work done (http://www.gnu.org/), I was very impressed by the wisdom of Wizards in releasing the SRD, and creating the OGL. Let's hope they continue to show that they understand that having an open game only improves their business, not to mention making a better game for everyone who plays it.

But if everyone thinks like you and doesn't buy the books, instead just downloading the SRD, then that does nothing to improve their business. In fact, it costs them a good deal of money for no return at all.

And one other point that so many of you pessimistic people never seem to get through your thick skulls.

THIS IS NOT JUST AN ERRATA-INCLUSIVE REVISION. THIS IS NOT A "BUG FIX." THIS IS AN ADDITION OF OVER 200 PAGES OF NEW MATERIAL ALONG WITH TWEAKS AND REVISIONS OF OLD MATERIAL.

If you had taken a few minutes to actually read the information on the revision, you could have saved us an additional 3.5 thread merely showing the poster's ignorance, and you could have saved me the five minutes it took to write this.

Before you start ranting and raving about how you hate the idea of the revision, try getting all of your information straight. It just makes you look like an ass.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: * Sighs *

You will only see a stripped-down version of the revised ruleset, plus missing stats that Wizards considered to be their own copyright (e.g., no Mind Flayer, no Yuan-Ti, etc.).

I notice Carrion Crawler has disappeared from the SRD as well...

-Hyp.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Re: Re: thoughts about 3.5e

If you had taken a few minutes to actually read the information on the revision, you could have saved us an additional 3.5 thread merely showing the poster's ignorance, and you could have saved me the five minutes it took to write this.

Before you start ranting and raving about how you hate the idea of the revision, try getting all of your information straight. It just makes you look like an ass.

And I thought he was explaining how reading the material on 3.5 had changed his mind. Silly me! Thanks Mourn for opening my eyes

Jeez, slack the coffee man!

 

[The Little Raven]

Re: Re: Re: thoughts about 3.5e

And I thought he was explaining how reading the material on 3.5 had changed his mind. Silly me! Thanks Mourn for opening my eyes

Jeez, slack the coffee man!

Always happy to help a fellow gamer.

 

[thalmin]

Hey, Mourn, he didn't start ranting before he had more info. He said "At first." Most people form an impression right away. The smarter ones don't react until they get more facts. He didn't post until he had more to go on, and didn't rant at all.

 

[dkilgo]

Yeah, Mourn, you really jumped the gun there and went from mild-tempered to really pissed off in a matter of 0.000000004 seconds.

There was no need in that!

Your rant pertaining to his posting, while semi-educated and thought out, has the appearance of you taking it personal when some person starts mentioning 3.5 addressed with a skeptical view point. Well, if you do not already know, then I must tell you that people are entitled to their own opinion, and there is not a god*^!% thing that you could do about it. And, for that matter, you are entitled to your opinion, as well.

So, as a request, could we keep the community bashing to a minimum. Even though you response might be well thought out and very educated it still makes you look that much less intelligent. Only because you let your emotions take control, and forcing the message that you are trying to get accross to be skewed to those that read it. They will not see the point you are trying to make as much as they see your emotions rising out of it.

And, by all means, do not think that I am innocent of this. If anyone knows me from when I first started on these boards then they could tell you that I would respond similarly to you. But, I learned my lesson! Please, only take this as constructive criticism, and nothing else. What you do with the criticism is completely up to you. I truly hope that you make the decision that best fits you in the future.

 

[Dinkeldog]

I think maybe after the third person told Mourn he was overreacting, we could stop. (Oh, wait, I'm the fourth person...)

Seriously everyone here is really tense about the 3.5 release. Can we back our intensity say from an 8 to a 6?

 

[Henry]

Re: Re: thoughts about 3.5e

It just makes you look like an ass.

Speaking of which...

I would appreciate it if the discussion in this thread was a little more civil. It's fine and dandy to disagree with something, and tell them it sounds wrong to you, but name-calling just gets people hostile and unwilling to listen.

Carry on, Mes Amis!

-Henry