thoughts on Apocalypse World?

[doctorbadwolf]

Given that I’m not a pretentious or “edgy” person, if I did think any of things I wouldn’t have written it.

The games are provocative and harsh. The prose reflects that.

The prose sells the game short by coming across as juvenile and like it’s presenting a game that is going to annoyingly push for needless shock BS for its own sake to appeal to people that never matured past their middle school days. Parts of it read like the “XTreme!” edgy nonsense with nothing to say from the 90’s.

The fact that if you get past all that there is an innovative, nuanced, challenging, work that will change how the user thinks about roleplaying is buried under a lot of stuff that reads like it was written in a normal fashion the first time, and the author said, “needs more cussing”. And I say that as someone who curses freely in daily life.

The style is much more charming in Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

The idea posited upthread that if you don’t like the prose the conflicts of the game aren’t for you is just BS pretentious gatekeeping of the most puerile, obnoxious, and absurd, order.

AW is written in an attempt to come off like it is written by someone in a post apocalyptic movie, but it just does a mediocre job of it, and comes across try-hard and edgelord.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I mean…you don’t hear how pretentious, try-hard, and edge-lord, that all sounds?

It's pretty demeaning to read someone's words about how much they like a system, obviously going above and beyond to describe it, and reduce it to saying they're being pretentious, try-hard, and edge-lord. You're not exactly creating a space where people are going to want to tell you what they like to play.

@Manbearcat I didn't realize the same person was behind Dogs in the Vineyard and Apocalypse World. I have limited experience with Dogs but I absolutely love it. The manual was NOT easy to read, but working through it I really wound up getting an understanding for the feel and language of the game.

He also has one of my favorite pieces of GMing advice. When the characters roll into town, don't have NPCs pretend everything is fine as you hope the characters will discover the secret threat... Have the first NPC they meet spill all the dirty laundry of the town, glad to finally have an outsider who hasn't already heard all the rumors!

 

[hawkeyefan]

It is in certain levels of budget for the movies. inexperienced but hottie types hired not for acting but for the ability to spur lust, and in a setting where their clothes are likely to get ripped.

In other budget levels, the locals may look like the casting director cleared out an NYC "shooting gallery" of its homeless addicts, but the mains (good and bad) will still be smoking hotties. The Karl Urban Judge Dread comes to mind, tho it's a little off genre for AW. Also Tank Girl, Road Warrior.

So, it's not entirely off base for some parts of the PA genre...

Note that other forms of PA don't do that; it's rare in what PA fiction I have read for the characters to be described as attractive, let alone hotties.

I take the description of them being hot not necessarily as a physical descriptor that, as you put it, "they're hotties" so much as a state of being. They're hot in that they're charged up. They're full of emotion and energy. The world is crap and they don't know if they'll make it through tomorrow.....so they live accordingly.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

While the narrative first approach is great I do find the Playbooks and the limited set of Moves to be restrictive, especially with the way some of them are worded. I prefer FATE Accelerated’s use of Approaches+Aspects across the standard Four Actions.

That said I do like City of Mists which has a few easy to understand basic moves and aspect-like Tags (instead of Playbook moves)

Yeah the moves are kinda odd. But like most things, the first iteration isn’t the best one, and a lot of games derived from AW (whether pbta or just adjacent) do moves better, in ways that don’t feel restrictive or as clunky.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's pretty demeaning to read someone's words about how much they like a system, obviously going above and beyond to describe it, and reduce it to saying they're being pretentious, try-hard, and edge-lord. You're not exactly creating a space where people are going to want to tell you what they like to play.

@Manbearcat I didn't realize the same person was behind Dogs in the Vineyard and Apocalypse World. I have limited experience with Dogs but I absolutely love it. The manual was NOT easy to read, but working through it I really wound up getting an understanding for the feel and language of the game.

He also has one of my favorite pieces of GMing advice. When the characters roll into town, don't have NPCs pretend everything is fine as you hope the characters will discover the secret threat... Have the first NPC they meet spill all the dirty laundry of the town, glad to finally have an outsider who hasn't already heard all the rumors!

Fair point. @Manbearcat I apologize for how I put my criticism of the game. It wasn’t my intention to aim my critique at you.

 

[Manbearcat]

The idea posited upthread that if you don’t like the prose the conflicts of the game aren’t for you is just BS pretentious gatekeeping of the most puerile, obnoxious, and absurd, order.

This is the sort of charged emotional response that would serve you well in Apocalypse World. That is exactly the kind of vitriol and vigor the game is looking for.

I think you’d do well as a player and like the game.

 

[niklinna]

This is the sort of charged emotional response that would serve you well in Apocalypse World. That is exactly the kind of vitriol and vigor the game is looking for.

I think you’d do well as a player and like the game.

Let's start one up!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This is the sort of charged emotional response that would serve you well in Apocalypse World. That is exactly the kind of vitriol and vigor the game is looking for.

I think you’d do well as a player and like the game.

I do like the game. Luckily I find the prose, though I genuinely don’t think it is good, vaguely charming in a campy sort of way, and gave it a try based partly on the effusive recommendations of folks around here, having played some pbta games, including two people’s homebrew pbta/fitd/whatever they came up with games.

But even finding it somewhat charming, I have seen many people who would enjoy the game be turned off by rolling their eyes at the prose, and I don’t blame them.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I will also say…a lot of the game’s assumptions are very “people are very bad, deep down, and only comfort and safety makes us think otherwise” which, while total nonsensical garbage as a belief about people, is certainly within genre.

 

[Manbearcat]

Let's start one up!

I’ve got 4 games I’m running right now! But I’m starting up a Dogs or AW game when one of my groups finishes their Blades game. Maybe those folks would dig a fourth if you’re interested and have chemistry with them!

PM me.