• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

thoughts on Everquest D20

Silverthrone

Banned
Banned
creamsteak said:


OR D: (I feel a bit attacked, but I know it wasn't meant) It could always be that when the video game generation (people who were born in 1985-1995, the ages of nintendo and sega-Before PS1) will find a totally new hobby from the game, and learn to be excellent cross-breed gamers, with a variety of "styles" of play already taught to them, and innumerable workable variations on written storylines at thier disposal: and be pretty fricken good at it.

Don't under-appreciate an entire generation. I know the "situations" you refer too... the kill monster for experience gamers, but not all of the people my age are hack-monsters.

It is nice to see someone actually get my point. I am not attacking an entire generation of people, just a single, cultrual subsect of them. Not video game fans. I myself am a video game fan. I meant the vidkiddies, the people who zone into places like B Net and other online serves and sit mindlessly cliking away at the screen in an ever raging battle for XPs, or sit dowjn in front of a game console and try to win the game by cheating. The same folks in RPGs are called munchkins.

Chances are, from what you posted, no, you shouldn;t be insulted by what I said. It doesn;t apply to you. However, the folks who usually are insulted are the ones who either misunderstand me or are the ones my posts do indeed apply to.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

The Traveler

First Post
Eh, Norrath is a decent setting, once you remove the MUD mentality of the trogs who frequent EQ servers.

The only thing I think that hinders the tabletop game so far is the same thing I think hinders D&D: sacred cows.

There are a few very obvious points where they mangled a mechanic in favor of more truly matching the online game, because some trog would have screamed about it if they didn't. Stuff like Pets and Proc are good examples.

Still, it bears promise, I think. Sword and Sorcery's designers are no slouches.
 

Ezrael

First Post
Well, I posted a review of EQ the RPG over on another site, and so I'll just repost the only aspect of it I haven't seen anyone mention here:

Confession #2: Everquest's classes and races seem kind of haphazard to me. Based solely on this book, of course, we have Barbarians (as a race), Dark Elves, Dwarves, Erudites (a smarter, weaker human, just as Barbarians are bigger and dumber than standard), Gnomes, Half-Elves, Halflings, High Elves, Humans, Iksar (think Lizardfolk or Sleestaks), Ogres, Trolls (which aren't much different than Ogres and not much like D&D trolls at all), Val Shir (Kzinti, to you Ringworld fans) and Wood Elves. I don't know what I was expecting, but it does seem kind of blah to me. The idea that humans have been divided into races that don't seem to be different enough to justify it is just one of my problems with it. The classes aren't much better, in my opinion. There are fifteen of them, although several of them are just altered versions of the standard D&D classes (Bards, Clerics, Druids, Monks, Paladins, Rangers, Rogues and Wizards, and the Warrior is remarkably similar to the Fighter) although again, I'm probably missing the way they deftly converted the EQ classes to d20. It isn't even that they did a bad job...several of these classes are quite playable variations of the core classes...just that I would have liked to have seen a bit more variation. XP is different from standard d20 as well, multiplying the current level by 2000 in order to go up a level. A 3rd level EQ RPG character will have 6000 XP, and will require an additional 6000 to reach 4th level. A straight D&D character will be almost 6th level by then. Frankly, I don't see any reason for this change, since the EQ classes aren't any more powerful than their D&D counterparts until they hit 20th level...since EQ didn't use, probably couldn't use the Epic Level rules for D&D, which are not in the System Reference Document and thus not OGC, but instead went with their own system which basically just tacks on new levels and what they call Disciplines, a 30th level Warrior in EQ has a +30 BAB, whereas a 30th level Fighter under the ELH would only have a +25 BAB (Epic characters only gain +1 to their BAB's every other level). However, the D&D character with the experience of a 30th level Warrior from EQ would be approaching 42nd level, and would easily gut the Warrior, so it kind of evens out. (A 30th level EQ character has 870,000 XP...slightly more than the 42nd level fighter, whose feats would far have outstripped the Warrior at this point, whose BAB would be higher, and who would have a lot more hit points.) This may be another case of translation from EQ online, but in this case it doesn't seem necessary to me, and since they were borrowing so much else, why change the experience points?
 


Ezrael

First Post
When I first read your post, Traveler, I thought you meant there actually was some sort of sacred cow in EQ that forced this, a divine bovine. Then I read the post above it, which wasn't there for me for some reason when I posted my thing, and understood.

But the mental image of a pissed off cow throwing lightning bolts at anyone who varies from online EQ made me smile.
 

MeepoTheMighty

First Post
Ezrael said:

This may be another case of translation from EQ online, but in this case it doesn't seem necessary to me, and since they were borrowing so much else, why change the experience points?

Legalities, basically. In order to use the D&D system of experience points, which you'll notice is *not* in the SRD, you have to state "This product requires the use of the Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook." S&SS sidestepped that little obstacle by doubling the XP scale, I think.

As for your other points - well, I don't know how much more different you wanted them to be. I mean, the video game is pretty obviously based off of D&D, so I wouldn't expect a pen and paper version of said video game to be terribly different from D&D, especially when they're trying to make it conform to the D&D rule system.
 

ced1106

Explorer
Ezrael said:
XP is different from standard d20 as well, multiplying the current level by 2000 in order to go up a level. A 3rd level EQ RPG character will have 6000 XP, and will require an additional 6000 to reach 4th level. A straight D&D character will be almost 6th level by then.

k -- Guess that takes care of someone's comment that EQ PC's are twice as tough as D&D ones. Certainly with those +6 and +4 racial modifiers, they should be...!


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
 

ced1106

Explorer
Corinth said:
What's the target audience for this game?

Target, shmarget. Sorta. I'm **pretty** sure it's more than selective memory, but the d20 products I've seen discussed on RPGnet and EnWorld have either been licenses or adaptations of existing games. Heck, you can't even release a CCG nowadays without a license or cross-genre game. Other than long-lived D&D campaign settings (Fantasy Realms, Greyhawk), how often do you find an "original" d20 product mentioned on these boards? Scarred Lands? Kingdoms of Kalamar? Relics and Rituals? DragonStar? EQ RPG could have been released as a d20 supplement (the evil races and classes stand out as being non-D&D), but wouldn't have generated the buzz. Heck, most products don't sell beyond the first month of the release, and we're still discussing EQ, on two threads on this first page of this board, no less.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
 

Ezrael

First Post
MeepoTheMighty said:


Legalities, basically. In order to use the D&D system of experience points, which you'll notice is *not* in the SRD, you have to state "This product requires the use of the Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook." S&SS sidestepped that little obstacle by doubling the XP scale, I think.

As for your other points - well, I don't know how much more different you wanted them to be. I mean, the video game is pretty obviously based off of D&D, so I wouldn't expect a pen and paper version of said video game to be terribly different from D&D, especially when they're trying to make it conform to the D&D rule system.

If that's correct (that they sidestepped the SRD by doubling the experience) then I suppose it's an elegant enough solution, but it ends up making the game feel clunky to me. Granted, I haven't played it in campaign style yet, so perhaps I'm totally wrong.

For the second...what I expected was that they would be less arbitrary in what changes they made. Then again, I don't play the MMPORG and I never will, so there are gaps in my knowledge of EQ as a computer game. (I know plenty of people who play it, I just don't myself. I don't have that kind of time on a regular basis...I would have liked to, back in the day, but it just didn't happen) so it could be that I'm missing things. I approached the EQ RPG as I would have any other pen and paper RPG that used the OGL.

But ultimately, I'm not expecting them to change a lot...and there is a lot good in the EQ RPG, like the interesting approach to weapon speed and multiple attacks, which I may steal for my own games. It's just that I found some of their changes odd and offputting, which may be because I don't know EQ well enough or because I prefer the way D&D does them. The stuff they didn't change, they changed, and the stuff they changed they didn't change enough. In my opinion only, of course
 

Dinkeldog

Sniper o' the Shrouds
creamsteak said:

*snip*
Don't under-appreciate an entire generation. I know the "situations" you refer too... the kill monster for experience gamers, but not all of the people my age are hack-monsters.

And some people that started gaming in the 70s still are hack-monsters.
 

Remove ads

Top