D&D General Thoughts on Racial Classes?

[Eltab]

The limits can help provide flavor to THIS world, compared to all the others. Consider Dark Sun vs Forgotten Realms.
I would put limits on subclasses not whole classes ("Everybody knows that Gnomes are the only really good Illusion Wizards, but they are horrible Greatweapon Fighters; they can barely pick up a two-handed anything!").
Ideal candidate subclasses for racial limits would reference / enhance the racial abilities in some way: got Darkvision? then Night Ward Ranger is for you.
And if in print for public consumption, an obligatory short sidebar about "Ask your DM."

 

[prosfilaes]

there's practically no reason to have nonhuman playable characters at all.

Is there any reason to have human playable characters at all? I'm not sure why anyone would ever play a human.

I mean seriously, you could give no mechanic differences to races at all and many of us would still play non-humans, regularly if not exclusively. I don't see any reason why an elvish fighter has to be mechanically different from a human fighter, certainly not to give a reason to play nonhumans.

 

[Monayuris]

After the rumor milling about Icewind Dale, I booted up the old game and was a bit disappointed to be reminded of racial limitations for classes. I understand it, and I think it particularly makes sense in a finite setting (FR, I believe is a bad example since the world is so large and races so widespread, but you might expect LotR Dwarves to not be druids, as they barely see plants). I've never liked racial classes as it seemed like unneccessary limitation. A mechanical drawback or benefit should be enough. How many Half-orc Wizards did you see in 3.5? Probably not many, but that doesn't mean zero.

I'm wondering what the thoughts on racial class restrictions are here. Would you want it to make a resurgance in the next edition, or like further racial feats/subclasses (Battlerager is dwarf only) in official rules? Perhaps if we saw some sort of prestige classes, would that be the time to narrow in on race?

I know those are rules easy to ignore, but am just curious what everyone else's opinions on it are, especially those coming from much older editions.

I'd like it to be a core part of the game.

For each D&D race, have a race as class level progression that is balanced with a race + class, as normal. So, what you would have is a baseline Elf, Dwarf, Half-Orc, etc... with their own abilities and mechanics and their own level progression. The 'pure' racial abilities can still be separated so you can take a normal class if you want to.

This would provide several benefits:
1. It provides a race-as-class mechanic in the game, for those that want to focus on a Classic D&D experience. No need to make up new rules, it is already there.

2. If a DM needs an Elf NPC, they can use the Elf class to build it quickly without having to go through picking race/class separately.

3. They can be updated / modified on a setting by setting basis. Each setting can have its own baseline race-as-class that fits the feel and lore of the setting. For example, Dark Sun Halflings are fundamentally different than Eberron Halflings, the race-as-class for Dark Sun Halflings can reflect that.

4. If a player does want separate race and class, they can still choose their race (take the 'pure' abilities) then level in whatever class they want.

 

[Zardnaar]

I stopped banning stuff as people aren't taking it anyway.

Next Dwarven Wizard or Dragonborn wizard I see will be a 1st. I've seen Drow and Tieflings in other DMs games not mine even though they are actually allowed.

Lots of elven Ranger/Rogue types but that's been a thing since 2E at least.

Due to every race getting a stat bonus somewhere a lack of a stat bonus seems to be a semi hard limit anyway. In AD&D no race got an intelligence boost anyway except Gnomes iirc and they could only be illusionists.

Dwarf wizard looks good in that sort of environment. Only way I would probably take one now is with high rolled stats.

 

[FrogReaver]

I have no issue with race/class restrictions in the general sense. In fact, having those restrictions sets up those races to be found in game and become playable races after interacting with and helping them which is a pretty cool dynamic if the DM handles it right.

That said, I dislike the notion that a restriction is based on generality. So I wouldn't like seeing PC Elves can't be X and PC Dwarves can't be Y solely because of race.

 

[Winterthorn]

I have given this much thought over the last few years; I am of mind to recommend the following:

1) Absolutely no race-class limits in the core rules. Keep things officially optimally free.

2) In some, not all, official and third party campaign settings have some limits fitting the theme of the world, where appropriate, rooted in its mythology and certain cultures, thusly explained and supporting the setting's flavour.

3) For homebrew settings people can of course do what they want, but good expert advice in the DMG on this topic would be welcome.

4) In the case of 2) and 3) above, one could furthermore consider race-limits just for NPCs; so only Player Charcaters and the BBEGs (and perhaps their lieutenants) have unfettered access to all classes, all levels, regardless of race.

 

[prosfilaes]

4) In the case of 2) and 3) above, consider race-limits just for NPCs; so only Player Charcaters and the BBEGs (and perhaps their lieutenants) have unfettered access to all classes, all levels, regardless of race.

Why? I see it part of making the world, and having to follow a few restrictions should help adapt players to the world. If dwarves don't cast spells, save the idea of a dwarf wizard for another campaign. Especially in those cases; you might have to wait a while for a campaign where your warforged or your artificer can be played, but dwarf wizards can be played in most campaigns.

 

[FrogReaver]

Why? I see it part of making the world, and having to follow a few restrictions should help adapt players to the world. If dwarves don't cast spells, save the idea of a dwarf wizard for another campaign. Especially in those cases; you might have to wait a while for a campaign where your warforged or your artificer can be played, but dwarf wizards can be played in most campaigns.

The question comes back to: "Why should a PC be beholden to what is typical for the world?"

Now if your setting is that Dwarves are incapable of casting spells that would be quite a bit different - but I'm not sure how you could worldbuild such a race into competing against spell casting races. In which case you didn't worldbuild them that way and they can cast spells and they just typically don't. Which brings us back to the question of why a PC should have to play a typical Dwarf in your world.

 

[cbwjm]

I think even in 2e I started to relax race/class restrictions. I think I allowed druids for elves since their woodland nature made it seem like they'd prefer druids over clerics. Even back then, there were some dwarves that could do wizard magic, main one I can recall is the dwarven savants from dragonlance.

Having said that, I also like the race as class in basic, it was a simple way to say "This is an elf, they're all magical warriors". So I'm not opposed to race as class, I might make recommendations in 5e (elves tend towards wizards and druids over other spellcasters) but I wouldn't restrict any race class combo.

 

[prosfilaes]

The question comes back to: "Why should a PC be beholden to what is typical for the world?"

Why should a PC not be beholden to what is normal for the world? There's a lot of games where you get random race or class, or random stats which limit choices of race or class. There may be a few games where you can play anything, but D&D and friends are not one of them; the options are quite limited, and you will not get to play a warforged artificer in most games, much less a k'kree technomancer. I don't see why removing dwarf wizards from the table is not okay, but removing warforged, or gunslingers, or dragons as a PC choice is okay.

Now if your setting is that Dwarves are incapable of casting spells that would be quite a bit different - but I'm not sure how you could worldbuild such a race into competing against spell casting races. In which case you didn't worldbuild them that way and they can cast spells and they just typically don't.

That's like saying that letting elves live to a thousand must mean that they overrun the world. Dwarves couldn't be wizards in any edition of D&D prior to 3rd Edition, so how did they survive in Krynn and Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms? How did the halflings and humans and dwarves survive in the LotR, since IIRC, none of those races had wizards?