D&D (2024) Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024

[Hussar]

In order to make both things work the way we intuitively expect them to, we need to insert an unwritten rule to disambiguate the effects of the Hide action from the effects of the Invisibility spell.

Who is this “we”? I’m not intuiting that invisible means anything other than “cannot be seen in the current circumstances “. You are the one conflating the spell effect of previous editions and what is apparently pretty clear to others.

 

[Parmandur]

Who is this “we”? I’m not intuiting that invisible means anything other than “cannot be seen in the current circumstances “. You are the one conflating the spell effect of previous editions and what is apparently pretty clear to others.

I haven't ever seen stealth be a problem at the table in 5E, to be honest, unlike grapple in 3.x for instance.

 

[Charlaquin]

Who is this “we”? I’m not intuiting that invisible means anything other than “cannot be seen in the current circumstances “. You are the one conflating the spell effect of previous editions and what is apparently pretty clear to others.

I’m sorry, do you intuitively expect a different result than magical invisibility making you unable to be seen when a creature looks directly at you, and hiding not doing that?

 

[Hussar]

I haven't ever seen stealth be a problem at the table in 5E, to be honest, unlike grapple in 3.x for instance.

I mean yeah. People have been going on and on about stealth for a decade while the rest of us just quietly got on with the game and did it.

You all wanted plain English in the game. You got exactly what you asked for.

 

[Ebony Dragon]

Ok - late to the party here but... isn't it rather obvious that the "hidden" creature walking towards you is no longer "hidden". What DM is going to rule otherwise?

Stealth should be usable in combat. The rogue moving up behind someone to backstab them should be a legal play for a character specialized in that type of fighting. So it would be exactly a hidden creature walking towards someone - I think they were trying to make that situation work by using the "invisible" language in stealth.

 

[Parmandur]

I mean yeah. People have been going on and on about stealth for a decade while the rest of us just quietly got on with the game and did it.

You all wanted plain English in the game. You got exactly what you asked for.

I am pro natural language by and large.

 

[Charlaquin]

You all wanted plain English in the game. You got exactly what you asked for.

Who’s “you all”? I’ve been on record requesting more technically precise language since D&D Next.

 

[Parmandur]

I’m sorry, do you intuitively expect a different result than magical invisibility making you unable to be seen when a creature looks directly at you, and hiding not doing that?

The word invisible does actually not imply anything magical or supernatural in natural language, it means "not bisible" and can mean quite mundane hiddeness. Genre expectations in Fantasy do tens to Amp thst up, I suppose.

 

[Charlaquin]

The word invisible does actually not imply anything magical or supernatural in natural language, it means "not bisible" and can mean quite mundane hiddeness. Genre expectations in Fantasy do tens to Amp thst up, I suppose.

I’m not making any argument to the contrary. I’m saying most reasonable people have an intuitive expectation that a magic spell called invisibility would make you transparent, and hiding behind a tree would not, and the rules as written do not meet that intuitive expectation.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Stealth should be usable in combat. The rogue moving up behind someone to backstab them should be a legal play for a character specialized in that type of fighting. So it would be exactly a hidden creature walking towards someone - I think they were trying to make that situation work by using the "invisible" language in stealth.

Absolutely! I think we may have been imagining two different scenarios. A hidden creature is no longer going to be hidden if they come out of their hiding place to approach another creature that is paying attention. Alternatively, the same hidden creature could remain hidden if they approach another creature that is otherwise distracted.

But let's be clear, the advice in the DMG quoted by @MerricB "Noticing a hidden creature is never trivially easy or automatically impossible" means that it's not going to be automatic for said "hidden" rogue.

5e.2014 (PHB p177) had the following advice: "In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you. However, under certain circumstances, the DM might allow you to stay hidden as you approach a creature that is distracted, allowing you to gain advantage on an attack roll before you are seen." Again, not automatic but not impossible.