D&D (2024) Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024

[Selas]

Doesn't regular hiding just make you hidden? Like, hid-n-go seek type hidden?
And doesn't stealth just mean you want to move from the thing you are currently hiding behind to the next thing you want to hide behind....and being stealthy is what happens between hiding spots? And if in between hiding spots i use my eyes and they point at you....doesn't that mean I can see you?
Am i being naïve?

Yeah, but @Charlaquin is just being nitpicking at this point

 

[KYRON45]

Yeah, but @Charlaquin is just being nitpicking at this point

Silly goose!!!

 

[kayakingpoodle]

I think the idea is that as written, the enemy needs to take the search action to find the character and beat their Dex (Stealth) score to find them. Looking behind a rock is a sensible narration of that check, though it might fail - failure might be narrated something like this scene from Two Towers :
If the enemy doesn't take a Search action, then as written, it doesn't seem that they can "find" an invisible target. "Somehow seen" would refer to a successful Search action, breaking the Concealment benefit of the Invisible condition, allowing them to be seen and therefore ending the Invisible condition as per the Hide action.

The roughness here is, I suspect, at least partly down to what Line of Sight means and the general lack of facing in 3.5+e D&D. It's clearly possible to sneak up on someone despite being in their (D&D) line of sight (by walking up behind them), but an interpretation of the Hide/Invisible interaction that means that breaking cover means you are automatically spotted would prevent this, which clearly limits it's usefulness. Even stepping out "in front" of someone may not (realistically) cause you to be seen - I'm sure we've all walked into someone while distracted by something.

There is no magic associated with the action Hide, thus you can be seen if you are not hidden which is why you can not hide if an enemy can see you.
Passive perception can break it too.

 

[ezo]

And thee line you included WAS present in the very last UA8 before the PHB release, yet people complained because it made Hide the same as the Invisibility spell, so WotC removed it. SHOCKER!!!!

Was included in which: Hide, the Invisible condition, or the Invisible spell??

Because, as I stated upthread (SHOCKER!!! ), I already acknowledged it would be better to put it with the spell...

Doesn't regular hiding just make you hidden? Like, hid-n-go seek type hidden?

No, it gives you the Invisisble condition... which is the problem, because you are concealed and cannot be "seen" (apparently) unless someone can somehow see you...

And even if they can see you, the condition doesn't end apparently and they still have disadvantage to attack you, etc.

And doesn't stealth just mean you want to move from the thing you are currently hiding behind to the next thing you want to hide behind....and being stealthy is what happens between hiding spots? And if in between hiding spots i use my eyes and they point at you....doesn't that mean I can see you?

If only it was worded that way and more clearly...

Am i being naïve?

Maybe a bit, but I'll admit I am more playing Devil's Advocate in all this by being more "obtuse" than I am.

 

[Charlaquin]

No line in the core books say that you can be seen with normal sight from the abracadabra spell since there is no Perception check involved, so this only applies to senses, spell and abilities that say they do. Please see my post above (#273).

The Purple condition cannot define how you can be seen because then it makes Goof Off no different than the abracadabra spell.

Ok, I don’t disagree.

People are overly complicating this. Does the abracadabra spell contains a clause that says an enemy can find you with Perception?

It contains no text that isn’t written in the post, so no.

Does the Goof Off action confer the Purple condition unconditionally?

No, it grants the Purple condition until the spell ends, and the ways the spell can end are listed in the text of the spell.

The answer to these questions determines whether you can be seen by normal sight or not.

Ok, so you have the answers to those questions. Now can you answer for me if the goblin has disadvantage against Charlie, if Charlie has advantage against the goblin, and if Billy the Bard can cast enlarge/reduce on Charlie and why or why not, please?

Don't forget, the PHB defines Wisdom as the ability to notice things in the environment, and is represented by the Perception skill.

I’m not sure how Wisdom and the Perception skill are relevant, neither is as referenced in the text of the spell or the condition at all.

 

[KYRON45]

Maybe a bit, but I'll admit I am more playing Devil's Advocate in all this by being more "obtuse" than I am.

OMG!!! I too occasionally like a good dose of devil's advocate.

 

[Selas]

Maybe a bit, but I'll admit I am more playing Devil's Advocate in all this by being more "obtuse" than I am.

Oh, we know; the sarcasm is dripping from your comments a mile away

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah I'm honestly trying to understand the opposing viewpoint in this thread but I'm not getting it... clearly if you cannot be targeted by anything relying on sight... you can't be seen.

For what it’s worth, I agree with this interpretation.

I'm starting to feel like this is about nitpicking, complaining and pedantry as opposed to whether the rules actually make sense and work when used in the game.

I’ve been saying this entire time that I think it’s obvious how these effects are supposed to function, but I don’t think the way they are worded actually produces that result. So, yes, this is literally about verbiage, which could be described as pedantry.

 

[KYRON45]

I’m not sure how Wisdom and the Perception skill are relevant, neither is as referenced in the text of the spell or the condition at all.

Water is falling from the sky:
An intelligence check tells you its raining.
A wisdom check tells you to go inside.
A charisma check allows you to mock the people getting wet.
A dexterity check lets you dodge the rocks they throw at you.
A strength check lets you hold the door closed so they can't come in and smack you.
A perception check tells you that i have too much free time...or maybe that's insight.

If the way you are using a rule works for you; go forth and be merry.

 

[ezo]

Oh, we know; the sarcasm is dripping from your comments a mile away

Shocking, huh?