D&D (2024) Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024

[KYRON45]

It seems to, with the exception that the Invisible condition granted by the Hide action can end if an enemy finds you.


Right.


Ah, but there's another issue. If you move from cover to cover, you are exposed and if you can see the enemy, it can see you, in which case you no longer have the Invisible condition.

The problem lies in 5E that there is no "facing". A creature's line of sight is all around them.

As soon as you step out from cover, you are in fact seen.


No, the total sets the DC, which is hy you must make note of it.

@ezo knows what's up.
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[Selas]

Ok then I've got to ask... Why can't enemies target someone who has had the invisibility spell cast on them with any effects that rely on sight?

Even better: why doesn't the spell require you to roll for stealth nor does it require a Perception check to "find you"? The Perception skill specifically says it's used to notice things that are easy to miss using your senses, so why doesn't the spell require it, but the Hide action does?

 

[KYRON45]

I think the goal (for myself anyway) and others in this thread (and other threads) is to do just that.

Back in my day the phrase: "because i'm the DM so shut up" was all we needed.
What's happened to the world?

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[Charlaquin]

I'm saying, write it so it does, and then use that version.

I have, and I do. But people keep trying to tell me the RAW doesn’t say what it says, or that the only reason it doesn’t work for me is because the word “invisible” is confusing me. So, here we are.

 

[Selas]

No, it grants the Purple condition until the spell ends, and the ways the spell can end are listed in the text of the spell.

That's abracadabra; goof off by your description is an action, not a spell

Ok, so you have the answers to those questions. Now can you answer for me if the goblin has disadvantage against Charlie, if Charlie has advantage against the goblin, and if Billy the Bard can cast enlarge/reduce on Charlie and why or why not, please?

They've been answered by @Imaro and are the same I would provide

I’m not sure how Wisdom and the Perception skill are relevant, neither is as referenced in the text of the spell or the condition at all.

Exactly my point; Wisdom governs Perception, or the ability to notice things that are easy to miss using your senses. Neither are mentioned in the spell because they're used to notice things in the environment by one of the 5 senses (sight, taste, smell, hearing, touch), but commonly used for sight checks. So if you gain the condition through the spell, but the spell doesn't use Perception as a way to "find you", how can they see you?

 

[kayakingpoodle]

Ah, but there's another issue. If you move from cover to cover, you are exposed and if you can see the enemy, it can see you, in which case you no longer have the Invisible condition.

The problem lies in 5E that there is no "facing". A creature's line of sight is all around them.

As soon as you step out from cover, you are in fact seen.

Only if you move while they are looking at you when you move, line of site. Otherwise it is passive perception.

Again there is no magic associated with the Hide action, it is skill, timing and luck not magic.

 

[Charlaquin]

That's abracadabra; goof off by your description is an action, not a spell

I hadn’t asked you about Goof Off yet.

They've been answered by @Imaro and are the same I would provide

Ok, awesome! I agree with that interpretation. Now that we’re on the same page, can you please answer the questions I asked Imaro about the Goof Off condition in this post?

Exactly my point; Wisdom governs Perception, or the ability to notice things that are easy to miss using your senses. Neither are mentioned in the spell because they're used to notice things in the environment by one of the 5 senses (sight, taste, smell, hearing, touch), but commonly used for sight checks. So if you gain the condition through the spell, but the spell doesn't use Perception as a way to "find you", how can they see you?

Again, I agree with this interpretation. You don’t have to keep trying to convince me. Now that we have established how abracadabra and Purple interact with each other, we have common ground from which to discuss how Goof Off and Purple interact with each other.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

I have, and I do. But people keep trying to tell me the RAW doesn’t say what it says, or that the only reason it doesn’t work for me is because the word “invisible” is confusing me. So, here we are.

As I have said you are conflating the spell with the action.
Think of hiding IRL, that's how it works in the game.
Hiding gives you the invisible condition because it works within the rules, not because you are actually invisible.

 

[Guest 7037866]

This is a great crowd, tip your waitresses.

I accept coffee.

So if you gain the condition through the spell, but the spell doesn't use Perception as a way to "find you" how can they see you?

It doesn't specify in the condition or the spell, just you don't get the effects granted by the condition "if they can somehow see you":

What manner of "somehow see you" is apparently in the features or whatever that grant the ability.

Only if you move while they are looking at you when you move, line of site. Otherwise it is passive perception.

There is no "looking at you". If you are in their line of sight, which is 360 degrees in 5E due to lack of facing, you are in their line of sight.

It is Passive Perception unless they use the Search action to try to find you. Line of sight or not has nothing really to do with that unless I am misunderstanding your point?

Again there is no magic associated with the Hide action, it is skill, timing and luck not magic.

I don't understand what this has to do with anything we've been discussing.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

There is no "looking at you". If you are in their line of sight, which is 360 degrees in 5E due to lack of facing, you are in their line of sight.

It is Passive Perception unless they use the Search action to try to find you. Line of sight or not has nothing really to do with that unless I am misunderstanding your point?


I don't understand what this has to do with anything we've been discussing.

360 degrees is a circle not a line. Line of sight is looking at you plus their perhriphial vision, you can see them, they are not "looking" if you are not in their line of sight(outside of their cone of sight i.e. direct line plus perhriphial) the passive perception comes into play.