Thoughts on Wall of Thorns

Nareau

Explorer
It seeems awfully powerful. No save, no SR, and automatic damage every round, not to mention that it's virtually impossible to escape from. Granted, it's 5th level...but is it balanced?

And as a rules-clarification: do you take damage from taking any action? The SRD description seems to indicate that only moving (ie, changing locations) causes damage. A player in my game argues that the only way to avoid damage is to stay "perfectly motionless" -- which seems to be supported by the PHB text.

And as a non-rules consideration: how might an experienced adventurer avoid/survive the casting of such a spell (aside from the standard spell-avoidance tactics)?


Wall of Thorns

Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Drd 5, Plant 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Wall of thorny brush, up to one
10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The wall of thorns spell creates a barrier of very tough, pliable, tangled brush bearing needle-sharp thorns as long as a person’s finger. Any creature forced into or attempting to move through the wall of thorns takes 25 points of damage per round of movement, minus 1 point for each point of the creature’s AC. Dexterity bonuses to AC and dodge bonuses do not count for this calculation. (Creatures with an Armor Class of 25 or higher take no damage from contact with the wall.)

The character can make the wall as thin as 5 feet thick, which allows the character to shape the wall as a number of 10-by-10-by-5-foot blocks equal to caster level x2. This has no effect on the damage inflicted by the thorns, but any creature attempting to break through takes that much less time to force its way through the barrier.

Creatures can force their way slowly through the wall. To make any progress, a creature must succeed at a Strength check (DC 20). A successful creature moves a number of feet equal to its Strength check result minus 19, so a creature who rolled 24 on its Strength check could move 5 feet in a round. Of course, moving or attempting to move through the thorns incurs damage as described above. A creature trapped in the thorns can choose to remain motionless in order to avoid taking any more damage.

Any creature within the area of the spell when it is cast takes damage as if it had moved into the wall and is caught inside. In order to escape, it must attempt to push its way free, or it can wait until the spell ends. Creatures with the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered can pass through a wall of thorns at their normal speed without taking damage.

A wall of thorns can be carefully breached by slow work with edged weapons. Chopping away at the wall creates a safe passage 1 foot deep for every 10 minutes of work. Normal fire cannot harm the barrier, but magical fire burns away the barrier in 10 minutes.
 

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Spider said:
And as a rules-clarification: do you take damage from taking any action? The SRD description seems to indicate that only moving (ie, changing locations) causes damage. A player in my game argues that the only way to avoid damage is to stay "perfectly motionless" -- which seems to be supported by the PHB text.

No, you only actual movement causes damage, this is supported by the statement;

Any creature forced into or attempting to move through
 

How would you rule on this then?

Target captured within a Wall of Throns spell. Caster then throws an entangle on the target.

So does the target tage damage each round even if they do not move since the wall is now moving to wrap them up?
 

DocMoriartty said:
How would you rule on this then?

Target captured within a Wall of Throns spell. Caster then throws an entangle on the target.

So does the target tage damage each round even if they do not move since the wall is now moving to wrap them up?

No, I would not rule so.

It is better idea entirely to have somebody else in the party cast a mind-affecting spell on the creatures captured, forcing them to move, otto's irresistible dance springs to mind, but fear, charm, random action, etc would also work.
 

How would you rule then? I am looking for a decision on this combination, not on what would be a better combination.


AGGEMAM said:


No, I would not rule so.

It is better idea entirely to have somebody else in the party cast a mind-affecting spell on the creatures captured, forcing them to move, otto's irresistible dance springs to mind, but fear, charm, random action, etc would also work.
 

DocMoriartty said:
How would you rule then? I am looking for a decision on this combination, not on what would be a better combination.

Oh, I thought it was implied that since I would not rule that the combination had any effect, then each spells has its own effect, ie the subject is entagled as normal unless he breaks free and decides to move in which case he takes damage from the wall, well that is my take on it anyways.
 

What if the wall of thorns are the only material in the area that can entangle the target? Would you just rule that it did no damage or that the entangle spell could not cause magical vines to entangle.


AGGEMAM said:


Oh, I thought it was implied that since I would not rule that the combination had any effect, then each spells has its own effect, ie the subject is entagled as normal unless he breaks free and decides to move in which case he takes damage from the wall, well that is my take on it anyways.
 

DocMoriartty said:
What if the wall of thorns are the only material in the area that can entangle the target? Would you just rule that it did no damage or that the entangle spell could not cause magical vines to entangle.

Actually since the the Wall of Thorns spell is conjuration (creation) the vines themselves are not magical.

I would just rule no damage since I do not see how the vegetation that happens to be in the area could have any effect on the Entangle spell, regardless of the type vegetation.
 

A clever idea, but what if next time I want to use Entangle on the local thorn bushes? Surely thats good for at least one point, or make it statistcally like a Vampiric Rose or other creature.

It does damage every round.

It only entangles.

I could see you ruling either way, but to keep things sane AND reward a good tactic, maybe have the Entangle deal damage only the first time it is cast, to represent the vines wrapping around the opponent. Thereafter, damage is once again based on movement.
 
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Jondor_Battlehammer said:
...maybe have the Entangle deal damage only the first time it is cast, to represent the vines wrapping around the opponent. Thereafter, damage is once again based on movement.

I like that! I hadn't thought of such a spell combo before. But, if it were to be used in one of my campaigns, I think this is the way I'd rule on it.
 

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