THREE elven races, plus half-elves ... but they say gnomes have no niche?!

[Rechan]

More importantly, folks, you will get your gnomes.

Eberron makes gnomes viable. I am certain without a doubt, that you will get a full gnome writeup as a PC at some point before the end of 2009.

Because if the Gnome isn't in the PHB2, then it will be in the ECS, or it will be given over DDI, or it will be somewhere.

Which is an inconvenience. But then, so is converting my Changeling Beguiler.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

But then, unless something bad happens to Gnomes, they also exist in FR - which may bring them sooner.

 

[Relique du Madde]

But then, unless something bad happens to Gnomes, they also exist in FR - which may bring them sooner.

Why do i have a feeling that you will need to by the FRs book if you want to play a gnome? If thats the case I REALLY hope they add gnomes to the SRD (if it ever is released).

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Why do i have a feeling that you will need to by the FRs book if you want to play a gnome? If thats the case I REALLY hope they add gnomes to the SRD (if it ever is released).

It seems logical to me that if the campaign book of a setting who use a race who is not in the base PHB could come first before the book who hold it, it could take the race first.

*shrugs*

Gnomes are not a PHB1 race, and apparently a more minor race -not so in eberron and fr. So...

 

[Rechan]

Why do i have a feeling that you will need to by the FRs book if you want to play a gnome? If thats the case I REALLY hope they add gnomes to the SRD (if it ever is released).

I imagine it'll make it into the PHB, where other races will be presented.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Personally, I've liked gnomes for some time, and played quite a few. I dislike their excision from the PHB, but I welcome the Mohj...er...Dragonborn.

Some comments of my own:

1) Tinker Gnomes = "Steampunk" is a false statement. Its not even close to true.

Even the humans of a given world with typical fantasy tech are working with cogs & such- quite a bit more clever than most people give them credit for. Remember the temple of Ammon at Thebes (from http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/sci/history/AHistoryofScienceVolumeI/chap39.html):


Automatic doors and trumpets, thousands of years before the tech level of your typical RPG setting, done by humans.

Why not gnomes?

2) "Elves" as a term has just as much confusion as "Gnomes." Elves are the baby-snatching masters of Underhill, represented by Titania and Oberon. Wait- they're the guys who make toys at the North Pole. No, they're the über charismatic dying race of JRRT's novels...

The original game's designers took the term "Elf" and gave it a game-specific meaning, drawing from all kinds of sources. This definition was basically followed by subseqent design teams. There is no reason that "Gnome" couldn't have gotten similar treatment than lack of desire on the designer's parts- clearly, there is a vocal group of players who like playing gnomes.

3) Why not make gnomes the tree-huggers, leaving the elves to be the top arcanists? Elves could have retained their preturnatural silence and well honed archery & sword skills without being a race of Park Rangers.

Why not? From my personal view: Because I like both versions of Elf - as Elf. If I want to play a pointy-eared woodsman archer, I don't want to be only the size of a child.

It's unfair that the Elf gets both niches, I agree, but I really can't see another race in that niche. Unless you remove the Elf fully from the game, like in an Arcana Evolved. But even then, I'd prefer a Litorian archer above a Gnome archer. And Giant Greenbonds fit pretty well, too.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Yeah, because no race could have two different kinds of people within it. In fact, I look forward to the Mountain Humans, the Swamp Humans, the City Humans, etc. which will of course all have different writeups and stat modifiers.

But isn't this how most fantasy/sci-fi races work? They exemplify a single human trait. Dwarves are dour*, elves are flighty, klingons are warlike. They don't have the complexity of humanity. And if they did they'd be pointless, because humans already do that job.

The alternative, more sci-fi, approach would be to possess a non-human trait like having three sexes or something, but that's not popular in fantasy.


*Yes, yes, I know. You played a flighty dwarf once. And a dour elf. Well done.

 

[Hussar]

3) Why not make gnomes the tree-huggers, leaving the elves to be the top arcanists? Elves could have retained their preturnatural silence and well honed archery & sword skills without being a race of Park Rangers.

Like other D&D races, the nature-lovin' gnomes could have been a pastiche from a variety of sources. A little bit of "redcaps," a little Neibelungen, a little fey, etc.

Heck, they could have been a forest-dwelling subrace of Dwarves for that matter.

Or a toned-down version of Stargate SG-1's Nox.

The long & the short of it: by not giving the gnomes a clearly defined role designers let them wither on the vine. Its no wonder that gnomes lost popularity in 3.XEd- especially with the illusionist/bard switcheroo- and got excised from the 4Ed PHB.

Just a couple of points.

First off, let's not forget that elves sell and gnomes don't. This isn't a 3e thing. There was a reason gnomes got bundled up with halfings for their own race book in 2e. And, IIRC, it was the worst selling of the entire series. Every comment from publishers has gone along the line of, "put an elf on the cover and it will sell". Gnomes simply don't.

Gnomes were never really popular overall. How many Dungeon adventures feature gnomes vs how many feature elves? How many modules feature gnomish homelands being invaded? Compared to elvish homelands being invaded?

There's a reason for that. Gnomes just don't have the same draw as elves. You can not like that, sure. But, you can't really argue against it either. Looking over the history of the game, from modules, to source books, to gaming novels, gnomes have been far, far less popular than elves.

Heck, Scarred Lands left gnomes completely out of the main setting and didn't introduce them until Termana. And no one noticed.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Well, that's because they've been playing a round of Jump to Conclusions. We know that the gnome will receive a write-up in the Monsters as Races appendix in the MM, which is supposed to make them playable just as the elf, eladrin, and human will be.

Anyone claiming that those writeups will be larger/smaller than the PHB racial writeups is merely producing those "facts" wholesale from his posterior. For all we know, the gnome writeup could be just as big and detailed as the elf writeup, and all those tears wasted on them getting less space will be... well... wasted. So, what's the point in getting all worked up over it?

http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13540164&postcount=431

Some of the races being lamented here will be in the 4e MM1. As far as I know at this point, that means they'll be playable—they might not get as much fluff and special treatment as a PH race out of the gate, but they'll be playable.

My expectation is that the full gnome write-up will be in PHII, just in time for Eberron 4e.

 

[Hussar]

Just another thought.

Gnomes just have never had the kind of traction (to use the WOTC term) that elves have had. For example, name the gnomish homeland in Forgotten Realms. Maybe you know, but, me, who has only a passing knowledge of FR, I have no idea. But, even I know what Evermeet is. I've heard of Myth Dranor. Isn't Silverymoon an elf thing too?

How about the gnome homeland in Greyhawk? Do they even have one? But, Greyhawk has the Vale of the Mage for grey elves (I think). I do know there is an elf homeland anyway, even if I'm not sure of the name.

The only setting pre-3e that had a strong gnome presence was Dragonlance and many of the gnome lovers here HATE tinker gnomes.

Gnomes have never had a whole lot of loving in any edition of the game.