three new turning ideas

[Boss]

This thread has gotten me to thinking about how Turn Undead will work in a campaign world I am working on. First off, I am using the alternate classes found in Unearthed Arcana, the Expert, Warrior and Spellcaster. Turn Undead may be taken as a feat, but only by someone with a Knowledge Religion skill rank of 4+.

I think I am going to tie the Turning ability with the diety in question. Change the name from Turn Undead to Show of Faith and give abilities like Priest of Sun God does 1d6+Cha/level in damage to all undead within 30'... visible show of a sudden burst of light from the cleric's position. A Priest worshipper of the God of the Underworld might get the ability to command undead he comes across. And so on.

Hmmmmmm, this is going to take some thought, but could prove interesting.

 

[CleverNickName]

It would be much more powerful than x2, and more powerful overall especially given that the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC is so prevalent and it gives tons of greater turning for just 1 level dip. However, it's much closer to the intent of greater turning, I believe.

Yeah, don't get me started on the Radiant Servant of Pelor. But if Greater Turning is something that clerics get to do more than once per day in your campaign, Maximized turning damage might be a bit too good.

 

[Nyeshet]

Boss,

Kalamar has something similar, in that each deity has their own additional use for Turn Undead (called Channelling). One deity's could act as the Mending spell or Make Whole spell, as I recall, while another could create sources of light, and another could grant a bonus to a skill, and so forth. There were several different possible uses, dependent on which deity the cleric worshiped.

 

[Boss]

Thanks Nyeshet, I will take a look at that. Do you remember if that was in the main book (only one I have access to currently)?

 

[ElectricDragon]

Don't forget that evil clerics can also Bolster undead against future turning attempts.

Ciao
Dave

 

[evilbob]

Don't forget that evil clerics can also Bolster undead against future turning attempts.

I feel like that's pretty well taken into account with the #2 option above, since a good cleric can damage undead and an evil cleric can heal them. In fact, as pointed out above, it gives a boost to evil undead clerics, as they can not only counter the effect of turning (as normal), but heal all other damage as well.

 

[Nyeshet]

Player's Guide to Kalamar

Thanks Nyeshet, I will take a look at that. Do you remember if that was in the main book (only one I have access to currently)?

The Player's Guide to Kalamar, the last few pages of chapter 6. In the somewhat recent pdf updated version, it is on pages 155 - 158.

However, I had recalled incorrectly. You actually have to take a feat to get the use of the option. These range from a +20 bonus to Sense Motive for 1 minute per use of Turn Undead to a +2 bonus to up to 6 allies near the cleric in a single skill for 1 minute to a random (1d4) bonus to Charisma for 1 minute to having all foes within a 60 ft cone poisoned as by a monstrous scorpion venom to shining like a living torch (continuous flame) for a few minutes, etc. The effects can be useful, but some of them do not seem worth the need of a feat to use. On the other hand, I rather like the idea of replacing (or lessening) general turning and granting each cleric a different turning ability based upon their deity, perhaps replacing the domain ability.

 

[Destil]

Just for reference for these that haven't seen how the number break down:

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/opinions/turningundead.html

Personally, I like the "Turned Undead cower" option. I'd define a "turn check" as 1d20 + 1/2 Cleric Level + Cha + 2 mentioned earlier.

Opposed roll of Turn Check vs. Will Save (+ turn resistance) for all undead within 60' and line of effect.

Clerics who rebuke instead grant undead temporary hit points equal to their cleric level + their Cha bonus. They can also bolster undead against turning, allowing the undead to use their turn check result in place of it's save if the turning check is higher.

 

[Pyrex]

I've been reading this thread, and looking at other turning variants (CD and UA) and here's what I've come up with.

Turn Undead is a little too all-or-nothing. It either ends the encounter or does nothing.

It should still pretty much eliminate (or allow command of for evil clerics) low-threat critters.

A save for the creature makes more sense than a roll from the cleric.

Then our party got hit with Blasphemy last week and I thought Turn could take a cue from there.

So here's my current thought:

Turn Undead
Save: Will Negates (DC: 10 + 1/2 Cleric Level + Cha mod)
Turn Resist: As written, TurnResist still adds to the effective HD
Range: 60' emanation centered on the caster
Duration: Concentration

Effect:

 HD <= ClericLevel/2 == Destroyed/Turned
 HD <= ClericLevel   == Paralyzed
 HD >  ClericLevel   == Repelled (unable to approach the Cleric as per [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/repulsion.htm]Repulsion[/url])

 

[evilbob]

Clerics who rebuke instead grant undead temporary hit points equal to their cleric level + their Cha bonus. They can also bolster undead against turning, allowing the undead to use their turn check result in place of it's save if the turning check is higher.

There's an issue with this, as well as the "evil clerics only heal undead" as defined in the CD variant: what about evil clerics fighting undead that aren't on their side? Evil clerics (god love 'em - or, maybe not, whichever) still need to be able to stop undead as well as doing other nifty things. And quite frankly, they should have a few more/better options than good clerics, since it's kind of their forté. Allowing them to only heal, bolster, and/or give temp HP to undead nerfs evil clerics a bit too much.

Just for reference for these that haven't seen how the number break down:

Thanks for that link! That's a great thing to have. After reading that, I don't feel quite as bad about the 1d6/level, save-for-half mechanic above. I think I really like the re-written (posted above) rule, with the possible change that Greater Turning does maximized damage on a failed save, and otherwise works as normal. This allows for greater damage, but doesn't kill anything instantly. It also means the turn still "works" (for 1/2 damage) even if things save.


Pyrex: Once again, a neat twist. I'll have to think about that one, although it gives some interesting options. It does keep the all-or-nothing aspect, however, as it's still a save-or-effect.