Tiefling and half-orc should not be in the PHB

[Bedrockgames]

Which "most fantasy novels" are you talking about? Because I don't think the majority of fantasy novels out thre are anything like this.

I acknowledged I probably overstated this position a few posts back. I also rephrased my position a bit.

 

[Kynn]

I can think of plenty of fantasy novels who meet this requirement. But almost all of them are attempting to rip off LotR or D&D, so it's a circular inspiration.

Cool, name a few.

 

[thewok]

Half orcs can be core. Theyre a bog standard fantasy trope.

Tieflings arent. They belong in a "Supplement if you want a setting with lots of interplanar interaction "

Half dragons belong in a "Supplement: Dragon*******s - So, you want rampant horny dragon interspecies sex ."

Tieflings in my world are not a planar species. They are the 4E tieflings, whose ancestors made pacts with devils. They are natural humanoids, just like humans. They are not immortals or outsiders or whatever origin the 2E/3E tieflings were. You may wish to limit tieflings to "interplanar interaction," but I have no desire to do so.

I've never played a half-dragon. I have, however, played a Dragonborn (not at all a half-dragon), and I have played a half-elf who has dragon blood somewhere in her ancestry (a major NPC in my campaign world). At no point in the playing of these characters did "rampant horny dragon interspecies sex" even get mentioned--apart from some light-hearted jokes now and then. The dragonborn are a species related to dragons, but are not dragons.

You may not like these as core races, but many people, including me, do. If they are included in the PHB, you have the ability to say, "These do not exist in my world as player races." If they are not in the PHB, I lack the ability to include them without trying to come up with some weird homebrew equivalent that may or may not be anywhere close to what WotC publishes six months down the line. And I don't want that headache.

 

[avin]

If you had actually read you would see that i said the exact opposite.

I think every remotely plausible creature in the MM should be open to be mechanically used as races and its the sole province of the DM to decide on a case by case basis what works and what doesnt for his game.

Reading comprehension dude, its a good thing in an RPG fan.

As there were people, in this very topic, advocating "alien" races should be only in MM because they didn't want to argue with their players about races not allowed in their campaign it's perfectly reasonable to come to the same conclusion after reading your post.

My point is: I want full race entries for a lot of races, not some half-made entries on Monster Manual, like we had on 3E.

 

[Bedrockgames]

As there were people, in this very topic, advocating "alien" races should be only in MM because they didn't want to argue with their players about races not allowed in their campaign it's perfectly reasonable to come to the same conclusion after reading your post.

My point is: I want full race entries for a lot of races, not some half-made entries on Monster Manual, like we had on 3E.

What about a seperate book of optional races? That way you get the core in the PHB, but you have tons of optional races with full entries to customize yur campaign. Personally I like to have have ogres in my settings, but i dont expect them to be included in the phb.

 

[avin]

What about a seperate book of optional races? That way you get the core in the PHB, but you have tons of optional races with full entries to customize yur campaign. Personally I like to have have ogres in my settings, but i dont expect them to be included in the phb.

It would take too long, people want it asap... I could compromise on DDI articles, if at least most of the so-called exotic races were available as PHB launches...

 

[Bedrockgames]

@Morrus;

It would take too long, people want it asap... I could compromise on DDI articles, if at least major of the so-called exotic races were available as PHB launches...

Sure. I needed gnomes ASAP when 4E came out, so I understand peoples campaigns cant wait.

 

[Aeolius]

I want full race entries for a lot of races, not some half-made entries on Monster Manual, like we had on 3E.

And I want a PH with a reasonable page count, to keep the book affordable to new players.

I could compromise on DDI articles, if at least most of the so-called exotic races were available as PHB launches...

Compromise. Make the intelligent races in the MM playable but presented with only the bare essentials, thus keeping the page count of the MM manageable. The entries could be expanded upon later, in Ecology articles and the like.

Sure. I needed gnomes ASAP when 4E came out, so I understand peoples campaigns cant wait.

When 4e was announced, I fully intended to test out the rules with an all-animal campaign concept of mine. Alas, the initial 3 rulebooks had no greenhags, druids, or Awaken spell - all crucial components to the campaign concept.

 

[Bedrockgames]

When 4e was announced, I fully intended to test out the rules with an all-animal campaign concept of mine. Alas, the initial 3 rulebooks had no greenhags, druids, or Awaken spell - all crucial components to the campaign concept.

one of the great things about the 3e monster manual is they gave enough info so it was easy to convert them to player races.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Cool, name a few.

Dennis McKiernan's Mithgar series.
Terry Brooks' Shanarra series - or so I've been told anyway.
Practically any books designed to tie-in to video games and RPGs, especially in the late 80s.
Practically anything written by Margaret Weis.