Tieflings of Melnibone

[Aloïsius]

I'm not familiar with the RPG. This is what Wikipedia has to say, referencing the books, not the RPG.



In both versions, accepting the patronage of Chaos is pretty much the defining moment that turns a proto-Melnibonean race into the Melniboneans of the books.

And as chaos makes them cruel and aggressive, then, in D&D terms, it's realy as much about evil than about chaos.

 

[jasin]

IMHO these tieflings are almost carbon copies of the tieflings found in the Dawnforge campaign setting. It's almost the exact same background. I would also note that Dawnforge used racial talents that were gained throughout a characters lifetime to facilitate mixing more powerful starting races (minotaur, ogre, yuan-ti, drow) with less powerful (gnomes, humans, orcs).

I've only recently gotten the chance to browse through Dawnforge and thought it looked incredibly similar to what we've heard about 4E too.

As far as Elric and Melnibonians go, I think the parallels are there, but again IMHO, the Melniboneans are made much more interesting due to their connection with Chaos as opposed to EVIL. They are not an evil people, just amoral. They do what they desire, when they desire it and with the only consideration being to achieve their own desires.

That is what D&D calls Evil. It's just that in the books, the axes aren't completely independent, but correlated so that unchecked dominance of either Chaos or Law leads to one of the flavours of Evil: either selfish, capricious depravity or stagnant, drab tyranny.

But in D&D terms, the Melniboneans overall (or at least the nobility) are definitely Evil. I mean, they make music by inflicting pain on slaves operated to produce a particular note!

In my mind those Melniboneans who are sorcerers are more akin to equals with Chaos, more bargaining or commanding through pacts with these powers (as they seem apt to do with any power that can serve them).

Much like warlocks.

Chaos is also creativity, rebellion, luck, etc. It is this aspect that lends a more complex tapestry to their background, and makes the conflict between Law and Chaos much more interesting to me than Good vs. Evil.

True that.

 

[jasin]

Sounds like them? Yes.

But no Tiefling could match the raw power of one Melnibonean vs one Human.

At least on a stat for state basis.

See any of the Elric games for examples.

No tiefling? Or no 1st-level tiefling?

 

[pawsplay]

The first thing I thought of were the Fey'ri from Forgotten Realms, with human substituted for elf. The second thing was that with their horns, they remind me a lot of the part-devil Tarterans from The Midnight Realm, a Talislanta spinoff.

 

[Lorthanoth]

This is exactly how I've presented Tieflings in my PBP game; they're Melniboneans with the serial numbers filed off. And still no-one played one...

 

[Mark Hope]

Its been a long time since I have read Von Beck so I will take your word for it. Certainly the Elric timeline seems rather, convoluted. It isnt helped by the fact that hints and suggestions are spread across a score or more books.

Agreed. The timeline is not so much a line as it is a bowl of insane spaghetti that keeps trying to escape and forge an independent spaghetti republic over on the sideboard...

I'm not familiar with the RPG. This is what Wikipedia has to say, referencing the books, not the RPG.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Two contradictory accounts of Imrryr’s special relationship with Arioch are given in the Elric series. The first appears in The Sailor on the Seas of Fate. In this version, the Melnibonéans came from R'lin K'ren A'a (“Where the High Ones Meet”), a city on an island in the jungle-covered western continent. The people of R'lin K'ren A'a were peaceful by nature, but the Lords of the Higher Worlds wanted the location for a meeting. In exchange for giving up the city, the royal family received Arioch’s patronage. Some of the refugees went as far as Sorcerer’s Isle; others went on to Melniboné, where the dragons were already living. Imrryr itself was built two centuries after the settling of the island.

A different version appears in The Revenge of the Rose. Originally the Melnibonéans were allied to the Balance and lived in two cities, Imrryr and H'hui'shan. The two cities disagreed whether to shift over to Chaos and accept the patronage of Arioch. In a civil war three days in length, Melniboné was left in ruins, but the inhabitants of H'hui'shan, the supporters of the Balance, were all killed. This version is told in the Dead Gods' Book and vouched for by the ghost of Sadric, Elric’s father, who claims that the dead are able to discern the truth. In both versions, the patronage of Chaos inevitably twists the Melnibonéans over time, making them cruel and aggressive instead of peaceful.

The Wiki account is wrong in a few areas, by the way. The early Melnibonéans didn't live in two cities. They lived in one: H'hui'shan. During the civil war, H'hui'shan was ruined and Imrryr eventually built over those ruins. Those who would not submit to Chaos were not all killed. Most were, but some escaped through the dimensions to other realms.

The Wiki account also doesn't take into account the stuff that was presented in the Making of a Sorcerer graphic novel, which depicts the Melnibonéans as originally being called the Mernii, a nomadic race tied into the wandering Eldren from the Dragon in the Sword story. This version eventually dovetails with Sadric's version of events, with Balance-oriented Mernii being seduced by Chaos. Generally speaking, Moorcock has tended to favour the origin story presented in Dragon in the Sword, Making of a Sorcerer and Revenge of the Rose, over that presented in Sailor on the Seas of Fate (which has an unreliable narrator anyway.) The differing versions can be reconciled for those that care, but it's often not worth the effort as Moorcock's Multiverse actively embraces conflicting versions of the same tale (see note on Independent Spaghetti Republic above ...)

In both versions, accepting the patronage of Chaos is pretty much the defining moment that turns a proto-Melnibonean race into the Melniboneans of the books.

Whichever view you take, this is spot-on. Their allegiance with Chaos turns them from generally decent, if a bit odd, folk into rampaging-imperialists-on-dragons.

(Apologies again for the rampant fanboism. I really can't help myself!)

As for the tieflings, it might make for some interesting comparisons when more information about the 4e celestial race is revealed. In the context of Melniboné, these two races might share a similar origin, with one branch being seduced by Chaos, and the other going all Celestial. Interested to see how that turns out...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The R&C take on tieflings may get me to use them in my campaign, as the survivors of the ancient magical empire of Kem. The stories are similar, although there shouldn't be that many survivors. Still a creepy village in the wasteland, full of tieflings, seems all right. I just wish they weren't so over the top in their physical appearances.

 

[pawsplay]

The R&C take on tieflings may get me to use them in my campaign, as the survivors of the ancient magical empire of Kem. The stories are similar, although there shouldn't be that many survivors. Still a creepy village in the wasteland, full of tieflings, seems all right. I just wish they weren't so over the top in their physical appearances.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

As far as Elric and Melnibonians go, I think the parallels are there, but again IMHO, the Melniboneans are made much more interesting due to their connection with Chaos as opposed to EVIL. They are not an evil people, just amoral. They do what they desire, when they desire it and with the only consideration being to achieve their own desires.

That is evil. Pure self-interest with no regard for right or wrong is about as evil as you can get outside of supernatural creatures of pure evil.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

That is evil. Pure self-interest with no regard for right or wrong is about as evil as you can get outside of supernatural creatures of pure evil.

This discussion, as is, will end in flames.