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5E Tier 2 treasure troves - Not enough gold!

FreeTheSlaves

Explorer
Omg, there's not enough gold in tier 2.

Got a 10th level PC going stronghold route, 21 armed retainers and 15k stronghold... Forget tier 2 quests, they drop like only 5-6k, which gets split 4 ways to peanuts. End up spending downtime trying to pawn adamantine war hammers and like.

Costs:
- Upgrade stronghold to 25k version.
- Train and outfit peasants to troops, like longbows cost 50gp each, chain 75gp. Sure I could have them use their hunting bows, cudgels and padded jerkins, but then we'd look the raggedy sad army.
- Ballista and mangonels are 500gp a pop (3E pricing).
- Forget heavy cavalry, 400gp for mounts alone.
I know, hire mercs instead, wait, 100 guys @ 2gp per day, 1 month minimum? 6000gp! King for a month, washing dishes rest of the year.

You know, I play old skool, become a lord level 9. But really it's moved to level 11. Oh yeah, those tier 3 troves are where it's at. Forget cool magic item drops, I want the ones with high gp value rolls.

Oh right, don't forget thread questions... I know, do you get enough gold in your game? What do you spend it on? And do/did you feel the pinch around upper tier 2?
 

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NotAYakk

Legend
A keep or stronghold that requires adventuring to subsidize it isn't a viable keep. It is a hobby.

You need real wealth. Land. Land that produces resources, to maintain your troops. Land that produces trade goods or metal, to arm your troops. Land that can be handed to vassals, in lue of pay.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
Oh right, don't forget thread questions... I know, do you get enough gold in your game? What do you spend it on? And do/did you feel the pinch around upper tier 2?
In our main game (just entering tier 4), we've never felt the pinch as you put it. In fact, we often have more gold than we know what to do with and this is with our DM using the default horde tables in the DMG. Maybe he is rolling lucky? I know he wouldn't simply pile of gold for no reason at all.

As our party "treasurer", I can tell you at this point we have in excess of... (looking at excel spreadsheet) 760,000 gp. Or richest individual has 131,000 as he has never really spent much of it yet.

All this includes us paying taxes and tithes as well, plus gifts of magic items, jewelry, etc. to the king of the lands we live in.

Now, our plan has been for a while now (after being gifted some lands, including a ruined town and old keep) have been to use the wealth and peoples we've helped (who are helping us, like a group of dwarven miners we rescued, etc.) to rebuild everything, establish a monastery, temple, guildhall, etc. and eventually have it at our place of "retirement".

FWIW, we equate 1 gp = 100 USD IRL, with the understanding people make between 5 sp to 2 gp per day on average. A 1500-sq ft house would cost about 1500 gp (1000-2000) to build, while a 200,000 sq ft castle would run 200,000 gp.
 

nevin

Explorer
you invest in merchant houses, If it's feudal you get a lot of peasants and have them farm. Then you need to figure out what there is of value on your land, minerals, lumber, If none of that exists, grow food, make wine, beer, ale come up with something your fiefdom does well and let the merchants make money and pay taxes. Selling loot is a great start but your character should be planning for the day he retires. Of course you can always go to war and take somebody else's money.
 

MarkB

Legend
The figures in the DMG are what an average opponent may have available to them. If the party are after wealth, they can research and target richer beings with the specific goal of taking their riches, in which case the DMG tables are out the window.
 

Tonguez

Legend
Gold is for the middle classes, the truely wealthy arent so crass.

Land, trade monopolies, investment financing is where the big money is.

The next time you clear out an infested keep on their borderlands persuade the local king to let you keep it and the surrounding land, then hold a celebration that attracts farmers, artisans and merchants to settle.
 
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THEMNGMNT

Adventurer
My 16th level group of D&D veterans has tons of gold and nothing to spend it on which they want to buy.

My 4th level group of D&D noobs has very little gold and nothing they want to buy because they don't want to play the accounting mini-game.
 

Asisreo

Archdevil's Advocate
Gold is power. It is just as much power as DPR and spell slots. Maybe moreso, because while spells can be countered and DPR can be reduced or avoided, money talks always.

Just like spell slots, gold not used is gold wasted. The dragons are not foolish when they hoard because they spend their days in dangerous environments content with using their gold as beds. That brings them happiness.

But sleeping on piles of gold only brings happiness to a select few types of adventurers. Other adventurers enjoy the things that money can buy. Land, friends, lovers, connections, and manpower is desirable by all.

Remember how minions can be deadly in this game in large enough numbers due to the way bounded accuracy works? Yes. Buy your own minions. Have them not only protect your keep but accompany you as well. Remember that high-level wizard that was focused on his own research? Tell him that you'll personally fund his research yourself. He needs only to assist you when needed. Have that strong mercenary way back in the beginning of the campaign work under you.

Now, you do want to use your money to make money as well, but not simply to hoard it. You need the money to have more power.

Assuming you're playing a game where there isn't a "monster of the week" type of conflict in very short amounts of time, you'll be given downtime. Assuming your DM actually runs downtime, this can be extremely expensive just living your day-to-day life. If you want to be wealthy, you need to spend a minimum of 3,650gp a year. Which might not sound like alot until the DM grants you downtime in the form of years or decades. 10 years worth of downtime has increase the gp to 36,500 gp just to be wealthy alone (it's actually called being aristocrstic).

Add in the cost of keeping a keep at that time, you'll be paying 401,500gp at one downtime. You'll need to be earning alot of money for that.
 

see

Explorer
- Train and outfit peasants to troops, like longbows cost 50gp each, chain 75gp. Sure I could have them use their hunting bows, cudgels and padded jerkins, but then we'd look the raggedy sad army.
Peasant levies are generally supposed to look like peasant levies. Padded armor and pikes, man. Real armor is for your armed retainers and for mercenaries.

If the peasants already have hunting bows they know how to use, that's bonus. The only time you field actual longbowmen is if you happen to rule peasants who make and use longbows for hunting, like English kings did.
 

If you cannot get enough gold as an adventurer, then perhaps you're not cut out for adventuring. Perhaps you should go back to work on the farm.

* hides behind his many chests of gold *
 


FreeTheSlaves

Explorer
Yeah, but we decided that 'running a business' is the downtime activity to earn gold (needing improvement!). Just kind of assumed that the peasants working the land around the stronghold helped it pay for itself, and gradual improvements.

I might need to present a case where heads are taxed per month, or certain places (mill, mine, vineyard) generate surplus gold. It'd have to be simple enough and focused on benefiting the stronghold. Something like:

Westgard
- Population 87; tax 87gp per mth
- Includes, 1 teaming lake, 1 mill, 1 mine (at half output); tax 250gp per mth

PCs personally outfitting troops seems too expensive, I'll talk about having new retainers come with decent equipment. Paying gold to outfit and train additional levies seems fair enough.
 


FreeTheSlaves

Explorer
Well, we have a round robin DM set-up, so we need to reach a consensus on something like that. Guess we assumed there was enough gold in the published game for the downtime activities presented.

And there was, initially. Saved for a stronghold, was rewarded a parcel of land, convinced patrons to help finance a border fort protecting their lands. Then along came extra expenses...

Tier 3 troves are great! Problem resolving itself with those. It's just the tier 2 troves.

It's not like we're slaves to the rules, but a DMG generated trove is a starting point. It gets fiddled with, extra scrolls and potions pleases one guy, and double troves for dragons. But adding extra 0's? Hmm, I think that's moving a bit too far from the baseline.
 

nevin

Explorer
Yeah, but we decided that 'running a business' is the downtime activity to earn gold (needing improvement!). Just kind of assumed that the peasants working the land around the stronghold helped it pay for itself, and gradual improvements.

I might need to present a case where heads are taxed per month, or certain places (mill, mine, vineyard) generate surplus gold. It'd have to be simple enough and focused on benefiting the stronghold. Something like:

Westgard
  • Population 87; tax 87gp per mth
  • Includes, 1 teaming lake, 1 mill, 1 mine (at half output); tax 250gp per mth

PCs personally outfitting troops seems too expensive, I'll talk about having new retainers come with decent equipment. Paying gold to outfit and train additional levies seems fair enough.
Well, we have a round robin DM set-up, so we need to reach a consensus on something like that. Guess we assumed there was enough gold in the published game for the downtime activities presented.

And there was, initially. Saved for a stronghold, was rewarded a parcel of land, convinced patrons to help finance a border fort protecting their lands. Then along came extra expenses...

Tier 3 troves are great! Problem resolving itself with those. It's just the tier 2 troves.

It's not like we're slaves to the rules, but a DMG generated trove is a starting point. It gets fiddled with, extra scrolls and potions pleases one guy, and double troves for dragons. But adding extra 0's? Hmm, I think that's moving a bit too far from the baseline.
that's what cohorts are for. they stay and run the "business" While you go adventure. Outfitting troops initially may just be spears and wooden shields. When you get more money then maybe you can afford chain shirts. Could be you hire an armorsmith, provide the forge and a bit of land or house for him, then he works for you armor shouldn't cost book value. But even landholders are limited by thier wealth. In feudal cultures some lords could only afford to send food, some sent troops, some could afford to send expensive things like knights and warhorses. don't assume you should have everything at once. It's really like wack a mole. Get em shelter, get em fed, get this get em that. it never ends. Depending on resources you may have to go find more treasure to fill the holes, but if your DM isn't going to let you come up with some revenue streams even if it's taxes and investments in merchant houses, or makeing money selling natural resources, your screwed. Every Lord needs income to fund his duties and if he's out adventuring all the time everything will fall apart unless you have a trustworthy Cohort behind keeping it going.
 

jayoungr

Hero
Supporter
Saved for a stronghold, was rewarded a parcel of land, convinced patrons to help finance a border fort protecting their lands. Then along came extra expenses...

Tier 3 troves are great! Problem resolving itself with those. It's just the tier 2 troves.
Well, look at it this way--it's realistic and gives you a strong motivation to continue adventuring instead of just retiring to your strongholds.

Also, if you do this with other characters, you'll know to wait until you've saved up a bit more before you start building, and it will be easier next time.
 

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