Time for Ceramic DM? (judge-free commentary thread NO JUDGES ALLOWED AS OF NOW :) )

[francisca]

Francisca, Agent Keady:
I can't help but feel a little let down by this story. For one, I thought the fight/finale was over a little too quick; even though her final words were fine (inspired by a Meta thread? ), it all ended in three very short paragraphs, so it wasn't really a tense moment for me.
Otherwise, the story is fine. So why am I feeling let down? I think the pictures weren't used very good, that's why. I think none of the pictures were used really well. It almost seemed as if you'd just ported a story over to a circus environment to make them fit.
"After the beatles": That could have been a good use, but the killer's employ of animals at the killing site isn't brought up again. Maybe Atanasia could have ripped apart an animal before jumping at Keady? That would have resolved that issue as well as given him more time to escape his bounds.
"Dinner": This pic is just in because they go fishing. Why do they go fishing? I don't know. They just go fishing, and there happens to be a pile of chum lying around.
"me and my shadow": this pic is really just a throwaway. I liked that you tied your story in with former works, but to a reader of this story, the horned shadow isn't really important. And you seem to realize it, too, because you forget the pic as soon as you used it. Perhaps you could have focused on it for a paragraph or two, with a more detailed flashback to Keady's former experiences? Have time stretch, and the moment before Keady recognizes the helmet for what it is might become a tense moment in the story.
"taall women": Atanasia wears a costume. For about one paragraph, she is half woman, half giraffe. And then, she's wearing a short black dress, and the costume's forgotten.
I really liked the story, but I fear the pictures weren't your forte, this time.

ETA: O.k., after re-reading my comments on Francisca's story, I hope they're not too harsh. I just know you can do better, is all.

No prob. I wouldn't post my scribbling in a public forum if my skin weren't thick enough to take the heat

Yep, this story was a hodge podge and i didn't make good use of the pictures. This time, like the last, I got squeezed for time, and had no ideas, and it shows.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[yangnome]

I enjoyed your story BSF. I had commented right after your pictures were posted that they inspired a story in my mind almost instantly. I still intend to write that story and post it in the kiln fired thread after your results are posted, but I thought it was interesting that some of hte pictures inspired us in the same way, yet still maintaining different approaches. I too intended to address the story from the point of view of a criminal psychologist, trying to determine sanity of a criminal....and yes, that means the boat picture will be used in a similar fashion as will at least one of the others. I think our muses (is that the plural of muse?) must be related; or perhaps everyone sees a dead body lying in a few bags of chum.

anyhow, fun read and good use of pictures.

 

[orchid blossom]

First off, sorry for my lack of comments on the stories. I'm going to try and be better about that as the second round begins. (If authors are interested, that is)

Secondly, (and I hope this is the right place to ask this) I'm reworking my first round story to see if I can't incorporate all the feedback I've gotten. I decided that after the first section I should switch to Devon's point of view. I don't want to continue in first person, as I think that would get really confusing.

So here's the problem. Should I rework the whole beginning section to put it in third person? It seems like it would be strange to start a story in first person, then change to third person with a different narrator. I like my beginning section in first person, but I don't want the change over to be a jolt.

Or would the change just emphasize the difference in thier personalities? Jeanelle written in first person because she's more willing to let people in, and Devon in third because he's more closed? What do you guys think? I'd appreciate any and all opinions.

 

[Berandor]

I'd really like to read the story with first person in the beginning and thrid person in the end, just to see if it works. That said, I think it'd be safer to change it - but would it be more worthwile?

 

[Berandor]

RPGgirl, 90210 Upanga Road:
Sorry for mangling the title, but that's what I first thought of when I read the title - a high school romance/drama Luckily (?), you proved me wrong. I liked how you integrated the hog-rider into the story, making him more than just a delivery boy by building the prophecy around him. I liked that, especially since it was the kind of prophecy that I like: totally open to interpretation
The books were difficult to include, because let's face it, they're books. However, you made them Derek's father's books. That was a nice touch that gave the pic a little more significance than it would otherwise have had.
The "commies"-pic was a little thrown away, I felt. It fit into the story, but didn't really have an important place in it.
The wrinkled face, on the other hand, was an integral part of the story. I also liked it because I hadn't thought of the face being inside the tank - a nice variation.
There are some things I didn't like that much. First is Derek's uncle. Why does he speak in "Pidgin Asian"? I assume that he and Derek talk in their native tongue? If not, I would have liked to see that clarified, because as it stands now, that's how I imagin the uncle speaking when he's in full command of the language; I don't want to imaging how he speaks English or Afrikaans
Also, the hog rider is a little heavy. Not fat by all means, but also not the typical swimmer's built. I would have liked that to be addressed when Derek's breaking in; swinging himself over a grate, climbing a narrow ledge, squeezing through a window would all have given ample opportunity for a little comment, I think.
Otherwise, a nice mythological story that I enjoyed a lot.

Greywolf ELM, Magic Fades:
I somehow got the feeling you weren't telling the real story; it was more like a prologue (or perhaps epilogue) to the really important events. That said, the story was well-written, and serves as a great entry into your world; it would also make a cool plot hook for an adventure.
What I'm not sure about was the use of the pictures. On the one hand, you use all of them quite expertly, and I liked the hand as a dancing machine. However, the pics are simply specific magic items that went bad; it didn't really matter whether a dancing machine broke down, or a magic fridge. In that regard, you had total freedom to shape the items to the pics. It worked well, I'm just not sure wether it will be regarded as a good use of them (or at least three of them). However, I liked the image of these clan having a room full of hats of disguise and change
Still, it is a rather static story; for the most part, the main character just reads letters about magic items failing. Once the pace starts to quicken up, and his dark secret is touched upon, the story ends quickly. At least I would have wanted to read more about the dwarf's meeting with the "devil". I haven't counted the words, however, so maybe it's a space constraint?

Taladas:
I really, really liked the idea behind your story. The psychic investigator reminded me of a Trinity character (sorry), and I loved it Funny, too, that both you and Greywolf use the diving pic as a memory
That said, you really have to look out for tenses. You frequently jump between past and present. Just one example (past tense / present tense):

One of the air tanks was dropped and ruptured and causes several other tanks to rupture. The chain reaction of exploding air tanks causes the shack and its occupants to be torn apart and thrown about the immediate landscape. Funnily enough their deaths were barely an hour before his.

These mistakes jolted me out of the story several times, and that really hurt the narrative for me.
On the other hand, you had some really great off-hand comments: "the Imelda Marcus of Hats", "I guess he really wanted to die", etc. They almost made up for it again
Picture use was good. Even though you use the diving pic as a picture, by having the PI (Psychic Eye ) live through the memory, you elevate it from that status. The hats first seemed like a throwaway, but you came back to it and improved upon its use enormously. The picture of the emciated man was a little jarring at first, but I gues it could be a really skinny woman as well.
If I felt that something was missing in the story, it was a clear resolution of the events leading up to Beth's disappearance. Did she see the monster below the lake? What happened to the men? Why did she flee to India instead of trying to find help? If she went crazy, I would have liked that to be clearer, because her "crazy talk" just walked the line mostly due to her really possessing powers to take the PI on an astral jaunt.

Yangnome, Mother knows best (yes, I'm tackling all stories at once ):
A man without memories? come on, that has been done to death already! (at least you did better than I did in that regard, I think).
Your description of the main character lying on that table, with day and night looming over him, was really great, also how he managed to gain control over his body.
Picture use was fine; as with Greywolf, I think a pile of books is just that, eh? Especially when the titles are visible. The other pics really could have used a little more detail, I think. They weren't really weak uses, per se, but they could have been a lot stronger still. Why is the character's skin so veiny and scarred - is it just the state of his body, or did David pump his blood out?
The hog rider, even though David is an important part in the story, felt not really good, either. Especially consodering David's role, I would have liked a little more insight into him. (see below) However, "pig on a hog" is a pretty strong image.
The "commies" was, I think, better integrated into the story, or could have been, than with Greywolf. However, you simply present it in an off-hand comment. If you'd described the process of putting them on before the ritual in greater detail, it would have given the pic a little more weight, I think.
Finally, I felt the end to come too soon. I was left with too many questions. Why didn't David come in during the two days the protagonist was awake? Why was David doing this? Just because he wanted to built robots? Here's where I really felt something lacked. Instead of just writing about the rants in David's notes, I would have loved to read the rants, themselves. It would have given us information as well as really shown us the deranged mind of the hog-pig.
That said, I liked the very ending for its spiritualness. Not a bad entry, at all, but one that imo could have been polished into a really great one - somehting it has in common with the other stories in this post, and with a lot of stories in Ceramic DM as a whole.

 

[yangnome]

I agree with your comments. The end felt really rushed, and tacked on to me as well and I wanted some more time to work with it and get it right. Unfortunately due to the mix up withthe posting of the pictures, I didn't have enough time to work with the story. I worked all weekend, so I pretty much just wound up with Friday night. The end of the story had to be rushed during breaks at work and IMO it really shows. I'll likely go back and try to rework the ending later. I really need to expand on David's rantings and the rituals that the group conducts. I also want to expand a bit on his memory of his mother and her problems with the cult he joined. I also think I really lost the feel of the story I was trying to accomplish as I was rushed. It wouldn't suprise me if the reader were able to read hte story and point to exactly where I left off Friday night.

As for David coming in during the story, I had given the idea some thought. I decided to leave it a little ambiguous though, just showing hte change in the stack of books on the desk and the light that had been turned on while the narrator was asleep.

All in all, I pretty much agree with your comments whole cloth.

 

[RPGgirl]

Thanks for the comments, and, as the reader you are always right. However, having said that, I'm going to respond to some of what you said ...

The "commies"-pic was a little thrown away, I felt. It fit into the story, but didn't really have an important place in it.

Interesting comment. When I first looked at the picture (I didn't see the title), I was immediately struck by it being a picture of African tribesman dressed in some sort of significant garb. As far as the story goes, I tried to make Erasto and the other elders dressed in red, and fairly significant to the plot.

There are some things I didn't like that much. First is Derek's uncle. Why does he speak in "Pidgin Asian"? I assume that he and Derek talk in their native tongue? If not, I would have liked to see that clarified, because as it stands now, that's how I imagin the uncle speaking when he's in full command of the language; I don't want to imaging how he speaks English or Afrikaans

Two comments on this ... first, you are assuming Derek and his uncle have a native tongue. Although it is not implicitly stated, it is implied by both the University choice and Derek's speech that he is American/Canadian chinese. Like many, he may not even speak chinese at all. The uncle on the other hand, speaks broken English - "Pidgeon Asian" - leaving the impression that English is definitely not his first, or even primary, language. Perhaps he would speak more clearly in Chinese or KhiSwahilli (official language of Tanzania), but the reader does not know that because you do not see him converse in either of those. Second, the uncle is a busy, impatient man. It could be that when he is relaxed he speaks perfect english, but when he is harried or in a rush, he falls into the broken form we see in the story. Like before, as a support character, we do not see him relaxed, so will not know.

Also, the hog rider is a little heavy. Not fat by all means, but also not the typical swimmer's built. I would have liked that to be addressed when Derek's breaking in; swinging himself over a grate, climbing a narrow ledge, squeezing through a window would all have given ample opportunity for a little comment, I think.

Good point. When I originally started writing, I described my characters in detail and brought their physical attributes into the story alot more than I do now. The reason for this, is something I read that says the reader will be drawn into the story more if you leave out or minimize physical descriptions. The example was a love story between a man and a women. In it, the author did not describe either in detail, and when asked about it afterward, the readers had very different descriptions of the characters and felt an emotional attachment.

Otherwise, a nice mythological story that I enjoyed a lot.

Thanks very much. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Berandor]

Interesting comment. When I first looked at the picture (I didn't see the title), I was immediately struck by it being a picture of African tribesman dressed in some sort of significant garb. As far as the story goes, I tried to make Erasto and the other elders dressed in red, and fairly significant to the plot.

Yes, they're significant. After thinking about it, I think the usage was fine.

Two comments on this ... first, you are assuming Derek and his uncle have a native tongue. Although it is not implicitly stated, it is implied by both the University choice and Derek's speech that he is American/Canadian chinese. Like many, he may not even speak chinese at all.

That is probably the core of the matter. In my experience, many (German) foreigners still speak their native tongue and frequently converse in it when among family. That's why I would have liked a clarification what language they're speaking. It read English to me, but that could have been a simplification based on the fact that you want an English audience to understand what's being said.

Good point. When I originally started writing, I described my characters in detail and brought their physical attributes into the story alot more than I do now. The reason for this, is something I read that says the reader will be drawn into the story more if you leave out or minimize physical descriptions. The example was a love story between a man and a women. In it, the author did not describe either in detail, and when asked about it afterward, the readers had very different descriptions of the characters and felt an emotional attachment.

That's a good point, and I think it likely works the way you described. However, we have a clear image of Derek (thanks to the picture), so perhaps this specific story doesn't go well with it - or perhaps I'm wrong (I've been wrong before ).

Good luck with the story!

 

[BSF]

First off, sorry for my lack of comments on the stories. I'm going to try and be better about that as the second round begins. (If authors are interested, that is)

More comments are always good!

Secondly, (and I hope this is the right place to ask this) I'm reworking my first round story to see if I can't incorporate all the feedback I've gotten. I decided that after the first section I should switch to Devon's point of view. I don't want to continue in first person, as I think that would get really confusing.

Going back and forth from first person is tough to do and would probably be difficult to do as a short story. Once you have the primary characters interacting, you almost have to show the scene twice, once from each perspective. The point is to show how each character views the same circumstances as colored by their perceptions. It can be very cumbersome.

So here's the problem. Should I rework the whole beginning section to put it in third person? It seems like it would be strange to start a story in first person, then change to third person with a different narrator. I like my beginning section in first person, but I don't want the change over to be a jolt.

This is a very valid concern! I have one friend that hates it when I switch perspectives in my campaign narrations. For her, it jars her out of the story. It is something I do to cheat at my narratives so I can show my character personality, but also try to point out things in the environment that the character would not notice, but I think the reader would find interesting. I have been working with third person immersive perspectives lately to see if I can find that happy middle where I can effectively do both.

I think that when you write first person that zooms back to third person it begins to feel more like a script for film than it does a book. While you might be able to write something that you really enjoy reading, you might have a difficult time convincing an editor that the story should be published like that. So, I would suggest that you set your expectations on what you want to do with the story, and consider several different perspectives. Third Person with some level of immersion might give you the effect you are looking for while adhering to conventional writing rules.

Or would the change just emphasize the difference in thier personalities? Jeanelle written in first person because she's more willing to let people in, and Devon in third because he's more closed? What do you guys think? I'd appreciate any and all opinions.

I'm not sure this would work the way you want it to, but I could be wrong. It would be interesting to see the effort and try it out, but that might be a lot of energy spent with no satisfying result.

 

[BSF]

RPGgirl's 20090 Upanga Road

OK, I had fun with this story. Conceptually, it was cool and had some very interesting elements. I have spent some time this weekend thinking about what comments I want to make on the story. Hopefully, they will be useful comments. Glancing over Berandor's we have some similiar "issues".

The pic for Derek is a little out of tone with how he sounds. But, I generally handwave things like that. The pics rarely fit "perfectly" and it is sometimes inportant to rewrite things just a teensy bit. That being said, I would have like a little more description on what Derek looked like. With Ceramic DM, you have presupplied pictures and a time limit. It makes it hard to be as descriptive at times and taking the shortcut of just using the pic is seductively easy. I know I have problems with it! The thing about this particular pic is that you do a good job describing some of the other pics. Personally, I chalk it up to the early pic use while you are getting into the flavor of the story. Later on, you were probably rolling through it pretty well and the descriptive writing was just coming easier.

Initially, I was having a lot of difficulty figuring out where Derek came from. First, I thought he was native chinese and him ending up in Africa seemed weird. Then, his uncle didn't communicate with him all that proficiently. Coupled with Derek's internal dialog about Macgyver and spiderman, and the revelation that his father went to school in British Columbia, I decided that he must have grown up somewhere in North America. If there had been a little more explanation of that earlier in the story, I think the story would have a little better flow.

The books are a decent pic use, but they could be a lot more effective with a little bit more foreshadowing. But, it is just a picture of books and that does not easily lend itself to being an integral part of the story, without being only about the books. Boy, that is a non-sensical statement. How about this? Being a picture of books, it would seem to suggest that the books are the focal point of the story, or the pic will just end up as a throwaway. You tried to make it important for the character, which was cool. I think you should put a little more focus on it early in the story. Then, when the letter shows up, the reader feels more empathy with Derek as he opens the textbooks at the end.

The story flow is interesting. You have some tension at the beginning when Derek shows up at the enkang. The next real tension you have is the break-in at the aquarium. There is something about the break-in that just seems a bit flat to me. I am not entirely sure what it is though. I wish I could give something more substantive than that to work with, but maybe something will come to me later.

Derek's uncle seems to accept the broken ankle without any explanation from Derek. I understand that the uncle was a secondary character, but I think putting a little more "flesh" on him would round the story out nicely.