Time for WotC to start officially supporting older editions?

[gamerprinter]

Well, with the OGL and OSRIC, 3pp can already do this (though I'm not sure what is going to happen to 4ed), but I guess what I was arguing was that the point of releasing new material would be for WotC to generate constant income from older editions.

If I were to play the older editions, which I don't (I'm only referring to pre-3x), the only thing that would be worthwhile to me is adventures. And though some may dispute it, I think WotC has never been good at creating adventures. So WotC could certainly try to generate income from the older editions, it seems that WotC can't create a worthwhile adventure for any edition (even the current one). So at least to me, WotC has no means of generating revenue from older editions beyond selling PDFs of already created content.

I don't and won't use DDI, so whether its the best route for WotC revenues, I don't know, but it won't be a revenue stream from me.

 

[Desdichado]

But with so many players now playing different editions, I wonder how true this argument remains? Perhaps the player bases are significant enough to justify an official product or two for each edition each year?

Ah, I see what you're saying. If so, I'd find that to be intriguing.

I expect for it to be the case, WotC would need to operate much leaner than it does today--more like a small company like Green Ronin or something, paying freelancers to do the development, and keeping print runs relatively low with very little fixed overhead.

The real question isn't "can it be done profitably," which I believe that it can be, to "can WotC do it profitably," which I believe to not be true, unless they outsource most of the work and allocate overheads away from these products somehow.

 

[the Jester]

But with so many players now playing different editions, I wonder how true this argument remains? Perhaps the player bases are significant enough to justify an official product or two for each edition each year?

It is a losing proposition to spend money to develop a product that appeals to a small fragment of an already-niche customer base, especially when that product takes away resources from developing higher-appeal, higher-profit-potential products.

Whenever I see someone propose this, I wonder if they have any idea as to how many copies of a D&D product WotC has to sell to break even on it. I certainly don't, but I know enough about the printing business to say, "This idea is disastrous" every time it comes up. There are NOT enough old-edition players, with the possible exception of 3.x/PF players (who already have a solid pipeline of support) to make this viable IMHO, and even making an attempt might drive WotC's 4e customers away from their flagship, high-priority, high-profit line.

 

[JediSoth]

But what would supporting an old edition entail? Would they reprint the core books and keep them in print? I could see that being useful with 1st edition or the Rules Cyclopedia/BECMI but how about 2nd edition? Are the Skills and Powers books core? How about the complete series? The campaign settings? How large of print runs would these books need to meet demand? What prevents WoTC from turning into late 90's TSR with warehouses full of unsold merchandise? How about Adventures? Would you buy a reprint of Keep on the Borderlands? Would enough people buy it to make it worthwhile to reprint?

All of that is before we even start looking at the splatbook morass that was 3.X. Do they reprint the softcover "complete" books from 3.0? Do they just focus on 3.5? How do they prevent confusion between the two brands? How many of the monsterous manuals are they going to reprint?

I could see them doing a reprint of the 1st ed PHB DMG and MM in another 2 years for D&D's 40th anniversary. I think that would be cool, and I'd probably even pay a premium if it meant I could get a 'collecters edition' of the 1st ed core books.

Most of the books up until 3rd edition had mostly, if not entirely B&W interiors, so they could set up a POD service with little to no overhead. Sure, you wouldn't get the cool parchment-effect paper, but so what? That's what you get if you seek out one of the original printings. I'd be perfectly happy with POD for a lot of those books.

DriveThruRPG has decent prices on full-color POD, as well, so something could be set up for some of the more modern books, as well.

 

[El Mahdi]

But why not? What are your objections to it?

Mostly, because the product lines had already gone as far as they could go. If they hadn't run out of ideas for the editions, or sales of the editions were still sustainable, they likely wouldn't have made a newer edition.

And for those who still use older editions (as I do also), most use there own material or other fan made material - or just adapt new edition material (such as adventures).

I would like the occasional article or adventure for older editions in Dungeon and Dragon, but I don't think they could make money with new products for older editions.

But money off of old edition pdf's is all profit. And after initial outlay, money off older edition support on DDI is almost all profit also (server maintenance would be shared with all editions).

 

[Keith Robinson]

But what would supporting an old edition entail? Would they reprint the core books and keep them in print? I could see that being useful with 1st edition or the Rules Cyclopedia/BECMI but how about 2nd edition? Are the Skills and Powers books core? How about the complete series? The campaign settings? How large of print runs would these books need to meet demand? What prevents WoTC from turning into late 90's TSR with warehouses full of unsold merchandise? How about Adventures? Would you buy a reprint of Keep on the Borderlands? Would enough people buy it to make it worthwhile to reprint?

All of that is before we even start looking at the splatbook morass that was 3.X. Do they reprint the softcover "complete" books from 3.0? Do they just focus on 3.5? How do they prevent confusion between the two brands? How many of the monsterous manuals are they going to reprint?

I could see them doing a reprint of the 1st ed PHB DMG and MM in another 2 years for D&D's 40th anniversary. I think that would be cool, and I'd probably even pay a premium if it meant I could get a 'collecters edition' of the 1st ed core books.

You make a lot of good points, but I wasn't thinking reprints. I agree that this would not be a good thing. The idea of the reprinting the core rule set is more interesting, but I guess still not what I was thinking. This could easily be handled through PDFs. I was thinking of just entirely new releases - maybe an adventure or two, or a new rulebook, and so on.

I also think your point on brand confusion is a good one and not one I have an immediate answer to, other than by using the existing branding thta was part of each release - though i agree that to newcomers, this probably would seem confusing.

 

[Neonchameleon]

What do you mean "Support"? The margins in new material are too thin to be worthwhile.

On the other hand the overheads for producing PDFs for out of print editions are ... negligable. Release most of the 1e, 2e, and BECMI catalogue as PDFs at a few dollars each, and that's almost pure profit. Not huge profit, but still. Don't release PDFs of the previous edition (you're competing with yourself - always a bad plan) so only put out PDFs up to 3.0 with 3.5 turning up at the release of 5e. Or do a rolling "Seven year lag" or something. But as long as you aren't competing with your core market you've already done the work, so what's left is pure profit.

And for an extra flourish, add a PoD function to all these old books. Black and white printing at Lulu is 2.5 cents a page plus $15 for the casewrap or $20 for a hardback black and white 200 page book. Which means that given you already have the PDFs and proofs you've got a decent markup on a black and white AD&D 1e DMG at $25. Isle of Dread? $5 at Lulu prices including a nice markup. This, remember, costs you next to nothing - you already have and own the PDFs and proofs. And people who want AD&D aren't going to be the same market who would otherwise spend their money on your latest stuff.

 

[Treebore]

I'd be happy with just PDF's. Not really of the adventures, because I already own them all in print and making PDF copies of them isn't all that hard, at least of the smaller ones. So larger adventure and rule book PDF's would be nice. Especially if offered at the low prices they had them at before. If they try for closer to retail I'll just continue to create copies of my own stuff.

 

[Crothian]

I'd like to see the old products in PDF form, but that's it. I don't want to see support from them for the old editions.

 

[Keith Robinson]

And for those who still use older editions (as I do also), most use there own material or other fan made material - or just adapt new edition material (such as adventures).

This is true, of course, but also something of a catch 22 - they create their own material because there isn't anything to buy! At least nothing official. I think using the DDI to sdupport the different editions is an excellent idea, but, in order to justify the cost of subscription, users of older editions would require a lot for attention - that is, there would need to be a a consistent release of good material to justify the cost.