Tips for a Beguiler/Assassin build?

[szilard]

Death Attack /= Sneak Attack. You have to study a target for at least 3 rounds withotu the target knowing you are a threat before you can sneak attack.

Sure.

Given the Beguiler's access to invisibility and divination of various sorts, though, that isn't necessarily a problem. That's one of the reasons that they make nasty assassins.

I'd agree to take Beguiler to at least 6th level...

-Stuart

 

[szilard]

As an Assassin, you have three big concerns:

1. How do I study the target for 3 rounds and then get in close without being detected as a threat?

2. How do I make a successful hit when I attack?

3. How do I make my getaway if the target doesn't die? (Or if he does die.)

A Beguiler has lots of ways to do the first one. They can go the disguise route and pretend to be someone harmless, palming a dagger via slight of hand. Or they can use Invisibility and Zone of Silence to get in close unobserved.

Number 2 is tougher. On humanoid targets, you want to do everything you can to catch the target out of armor (and flatfooted). You can also get True Strike as a first level assassin, casting it silently with a lesser metamagic rod (or inside your zone of silence, but positioning is tricky).

Number 3 isn't purely a matter of mechanical builds, but of in-character planning and resourcefulness.

Beguiler does help with all of these, though.

1. Other things that help Beguilers: Clairvoyance, enchantment spells (Charming someone before a death attack? sure!), or spells that help you hide indirectly (spider climb?).
2. This is where I was making my suggestion for Improved Feint + two weapon fighting. As a fifth level Beguiler, you'll have Silent Spell as a bonus feat... but going the feinting route you'll be denying them their Dex bonus every round you successfully feint (which should be most of the time).
3. not purely a mechanical matter, no... but, again, the Beguiler has a ton of tools: Disguise Self, Invisibility, Spider Climb, Fog Cloud, Haste... Vertigo Field and Legion of Sentinals are great for covering escape routes... and high level Beguilers have some terrifying options (Shadow Walk and various ethereal choices...)

-Stuart

 

[chaos2600]

Beguiler does help with all of these, though.

2. This is where I was making my suggestion for Improved Feint + two weapon fighting. As a fifth level Beguiler, you'll have Silent Spell as a bonus feat... but going the feinting route you'll be denying them their Dex bonus every round you successfully feint (which should be most of the time).

-Stuart

Unless it's been errata'd or somesuch, feinting only applies to a single attack. Since you can only make one swift action per round I don't know that two weapon fighting will get you very far, sadly enough.

 

[Thurbane]

Some great suggestions there, thanks.

I was also thinking to possibly getting the God Blooded: Vecna template at some point (MM5), as the abilities it grants would seem to mesh well with my character concept. Not sure if the LA would hurt too much to make it worthwhile. It's only +1, so maybe...

 

[szilard]

Unless it's been errata'd or somesuch, feinting only applies to a single attack. Since you can only make one swift action per round I don't know that two weapon fighting will get you very far, sadly enough.

Ah! Good point.

I haven't used this sort of build, but it seemed like a neat ides.

Hmmm... is there any reason a Beguiler with Improved feint couldn't feint twice in a round - once as a move action and once as a swift action?

-Stuart

 

[Nifft]

How set are you on Assassin?
Two levels of Swordsage could get you a Sneak Attack stance, and access to the Shadow Blade + Shadow Trickster feats.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Thurbane]

Pretty set on Assassin.

Also, ToB is specifically on the banned list of the campaign - but good suggestions, thanks.

 

[Nifft]

That's unfortunate.

IMHO Assassin is a problematic class -- both underpowered and broken, depending on who you face. Since you're starting with a full caster, IMHO it's better to stay as close to full caster as possible.

Is Death Attack in specific vital to your concept?

Would you consider Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster, both of which advance existing spellcasting, instead?

Cheers, -- N

 

[chaos2600]

Hmmm... is there any reason a Beguiler with Improved feint couldn't feint twice in a round - once as a move action and once as a swift action?

-Stuart

Heh, maybe. I'm not sure it gets you much further, since taking a move action means you can't take a full-round to use two-weapon fighting...

round 1:
move = feint
attack once (target denied dex)
swift = feint
round 2:
full attack part 1 (target denied dex from previous feint)
swift = feint
full attack part 2 (target denied dex)

...or can one not take a swift action in the middle of a full attack? Regardless, at that point your assassin's spent about one too many rounds in melee range.