• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Tired of "Mana"

Goblyn

Explorer
Staffan said:
Yeah, "trolleri" is Swedish. It's more about the act of doing magic than about some "magic energy", though.

Oh? I thought that was some other type of word-play: as a corollary is to a rule, a trolleri is to an inflammatory remark.

eg. "DnD is stupid and so are all of it's players" is an inflammatory remark(a troll); "DnD begets stupidity" is a Trolleri.

...:confused:

I think I'm just a goofball.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

tetsujin28

First Post
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
Why? It's an understood term, it gets the point across, and it's got a decent etymology. That's like saying, "If you need to describe a one-handed, metal, bladed instrument for the maiming of people, don't use the word 'sword.' It's overused."
"Mana" is a better term than "shaman", that's for sure.
 

tetsujin28

First Post
mythusmage said:
5th essence? Good Lord is that off the mark!
Actually, no. "Quinta Essentia" does literally mean "5th essence; the fifth and highest element after air and earth and fire and water; believed to be the substance composing all heavenly bodies".
Quintessence, what you get when you remove the stuff that aint up to snuff. The best of the best.
That's what the 5th essence is: the essence that is more than essence.
 

babomb

First Post
The Mad Kaiser said:
So now I have a new word to accompany "Tolkienesque" whenever I see "mana"; "Nivenesque." That should mitigate my distaste for tired plagerism.

Plagerism? Using a word someone else coined is plagerism? Well darn. I'd "rant" about that, but I can't because Shakespeare coined that word. I can "assassinate", but there's no "assassination", because the Bard made that one too. "Serendipity"? Nope, coined by Horave Walpole. I can't even use "Nivenesque" now, because I'd be plagerising you.

Further, others have pointed out that several of your suggestions for replacements are similar things in different languages. If everyone starts using Varázs, what have we gained, exactly? It just doesn't make sense to me.
 

fusangite

First Post
babomb said:
Further, others have pointed out that several of your suggestions for replacements are similar things in different languages. If everyone starts using Varázs, what have we gained, exactly? It just doesn't make sense to me.
While I can't speak for The Kaiser, generally, those of us who are suggesting different terminology aren't suggesting it because it means the same thing. We are suggesting it because it means different things.

It's not that we're tired of the sound of the word "mana" -- we're tired of the fact that it implies magic is based on accessing some kind of Teslaesque meta-energy, based on the meaning the term acquired not from its original Polynesian context but on how game and novel writers have chosen to see it as some kind of fuel-like thing.

My hope, at least, is that if we start to use different terms, it will enable us to imagine magic as, frankly, a little more magical.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
The Sigil said:
I didn't remember "varáz" from my Hungarian (and though I'm not a native speaker, I'm about as close as you'll find), and when I did a little thinking, I realized I think you mean "Varázs" (with a trailing "s") and it's pretty much the same thing as "charisma" - to apply it on its own to magic is to misapply it in exactly the way you got annoyed at "mana" (mis)applied to magic! As in nemi varázs (sex appeal) or egyéni varázs (personal magnetism; the ability to project to others) or személyes varázs (varázs specific to an individual, often translated as simply "charisma").

Interestingly, when Hungarian begins to apply its postpositional suffixes to varázs, it begins to shift from simple "Charisma" to the more mystic thing you're looking for... varázsló, for instance, could be literally rendered as "one who practices varázs" and could be translated as magician, wizard, sorcerer, etc.

From there, you get to varázsige (literally "word of varázs", or magical incantation), varázsjel ("mark/engraving of varázs" or magic rune), varázsital ("drink produced by varázs" or potions), varázslat ("the study of varázs" or the study of sorcery/wizardry itself), varázslas ("the practice of varázs" or actually casting the spells, as opposed to merely studying them - field experimentation as opposed to theory, if you will), and so on. If you go on, you can get things like átvarázsol (literally "to varázs (something) across" or to transmute/polymorph) or elővarázsol (literally, to varázs (something) to the space before you" or to summon/conjure into being).

The reason I'm going through all this boring etymology with varázs is to point out to you that one of the substitutions you yourself proposed as an alternative to the "misapplied" word MANA is essentially identical in meaning to mana, and is only associated with magic through the same "misapplication" process in another language! The only difference is that the "misapplication" is hundreds of years old instead of decades old!

Furthermore, I think it's not a misapplication at all! One of the things I really enjoyed about 3e is the way it defined charisma as more than simply "attractiveness" - now it really does seem to consist of "your ability to project your will onto the world around you" (this is why sorcerer spells are Cha-based and monster attacks that are not physical gouts of stuff are generally Cha-based). This definition makes Charisma make a lot more sense as an "attribute" akin to Strength or Intelligence because it kind of indicates something quantifiable - as opposed to simple attractiveness, which is subjective in the eye of the beholder anyway (i.e., not an "objective" thing and therefore not easily quantifiable)! Does it not make sense that Charisma - "mana or varázs" - sees a natural outgrowth of the concept of simple psychological "influence" into a (superstitious) concept of real, physical influence? (I hope that was understandable).

In other words, magical effects are a manifestation of some sort of "intangible energy field." This energy field can be manipulated two ways - by applying pseudoscience (Int-based wizards) or by sheer force of will projected on the world (Cha-based sorcerers)... in much the same way people can be influenced by logical argument (Int-based) or personal magnetism/emotional argument (Cha-based). Since humans have a tendency to anthropomorphize, it makes sense that since we see two ways in which WE are influenced, nature must be influenced in analagous ways.

The upshot of all of this is: To use a word to describe one's potential to manipulate the field that is derived from "force of will projected onto the world" - be it charisma, mana, or varázs - is NOT a misapplication, but rather a natural etymological evolution of the word. So I reject your first argument - that using "mana" as synonomous for "magic points" or "magic potential" is a misapplication. I think it's a perfectly valid one! ;)

--The Sigil

That was beautiful man - and one of the best descriptions I've heard of the real meaming of the word Mana (ps I speak a polynesian language so that is a compliment)
 

Nuclear Platypus

First Post
babomb said:
Plagerism? Using a word someone else coined is plagerism? Well darn. I'd "rant" about that, but I can't because Shakespeare coined that word. I can "assassinate", but there's no "assassination", because the Bard made that one too. "Serendipity"? Nope, coined by Horave Walpole. I can't even use "Nivenesque" now, because I'd be plagerising you.

Further, others have pointed out that several of your suggestions for replacements are similar things in different languages. If everyone starts using Varázs, what have we gained, exactly? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Plagarism is using one source. Using multiple sources is research.

tetsujin28 said:
Actually, no. "Quinta Essentia" does literally mean "5th essence; the fifth and highest element after air and earth and fire and water; believed to be the substance composing all heavenly bodies".That's what the 5th essence is: the essence that is more than essence.

No, the 5th Element is Milla Jovovich. "Big badaboom!" So how about Leeloos?
 

shadow

First Post
Well, really mana has come into the standard lexicon (of gamers at least) to refer to magical energy. As such, I don't really have a problem with it.

However, if looking for a new word, may I suggest:

(Chi): Chinese

ki: Japanese (Japanese word for chi)

glamour: English obviously, but originally from Gaelic meaning "magic". (Would work really well for Sorcerous magic.)

πνεύμα (pneuma): Greek

force: Conjures up images of Star Wars, but it could work.
 

Thaniel

First Post
Drew said:
I like Jiggawatts.

As in "1.21 jiggawatts? The only spell that could generate that kind of magical power is Lightning Bolt!"
Actually, that was Gigawatt, they just pronounced it with a soft g sound. But still. I tip my hat to you for the B2tF reference. Kudos.
 


Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top