To anyone who bought the EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK

[S'mon]

To me, the term munchkin implies power that is not earned. I have seen characters who did not earn their power who were only 10th level (with weapons which were weaker versions of stuff from 1st Edition Deities and Demigods) to people who had weapons out of the cartoon show Thundarr the Barbarian (and took the sunsword directly from the sun.) It was not the power that offended me, but the fact that it seemed to be just given away.

I agree with this - munchkinism is not about power, but unearned power - EGG's discussion of Monty Haul campaigns in the 1e DMG gives a good analysis. U_K/Craig has slight munchkin tendencies I guess (at this time I can't recall very well, but I seem to remember that a few of Thrin's levels might have been gained in 'solo' play when I was burnt-out - U-K can confirm/deny) - but as a DM I've never had any trouble terrorising him with foes more powrful than Thrin - Hel, Wotan, Doomstar (not actually a foe), Arasaka ACPA troopers, etc. I'm generally considered a tough GM, even a killer GM by some. And certainly 90%+ of Thrin's levels were earned in games I GM'd.

 

[Numion]

Has Edena said he cheated!? If not, I would give him the benefit of the doubt! Innocent until proven guilty after all!

But he admitted it! He said he advanced his character repeatedly through the low levels, but added the new levels to his (high) total. Is that by the rules?

Then it's cheating.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I love how this thread became a Flame War. (sighs)

(Yes, I call being accused of being a cheater four times a Flame War.)

Good thing this is post 200, and they'll be closing this thread due to it's size.

But ... I suppose someone will manage to start it all over on a new thread. (sighs again) Not me.

- - -

Upper Krust, I made that comment (Redgar would kick Edena's butt) as pure, light humor.
Humor always helps in a game, and I subscribe to the notion that it is a good thing on the ENBoards.

- - -

The Book of Twink? How'd they get that name?
How did Munchkin turn into Twink?
That one has my curiosity up.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Finally went to Nutkinland for the very first time.
What do I find?

The Edena_of_Naith Is A Cheat thread.

Hmmm ... time to go over to Nutkinland, and let some discourteous people have it.

- - -

Thank gods for the ENBoards, though, where relative courtesy is required by the moderators.

- - -

Anyways, my final take on the ELH is that it is going to cause a lot of uproar (hasn't it done so already?)
It is very unconventional in it's assumptions.
It sanctions things that were never sanctioned before.
It is a rabble-rouser of a book. It stirs the pot, causes froth to boil up out into the room.

It expands the game.
I hope it makes for a better game.
I still open they approve the OGL for this book.

 

[Johno]

But he admitted it! He said he advanced his character repeatedly through the low levels, but added the new levels to his (high) total. Is that by the rules?

Then it's cheating.

Did you participate in those games? Did you see any fudging of die rolls?

If not, why care?

Did Edena have fun playng the character? Did his fellow gamers enjoy his company at the table?

Those are more relevant questions.

It is just a game, dudes. There are far more important things to get upset about.

 

[S'mon]

Did you participate in those games? Did you see any fudging of die rolls?

If not, why care?

Did Edena have fun playng the character? Did his fellow gamers enjoy his company at the table?

Those are more relevant questions.

It is just a game, dudes. There are far more important things to get upset about.

It doesn't bother me if Edena is sitting alone in his bedroom adding levels gained in 5th-level play to his 21st level PC until he makes 140th level, but IMO this isn't 'lawfully' earned XP, and I think that's what people mean when they call him a cheat, alkthough 'disingenuous' would be more accurate. At least Edenea owned up to it, and apparently doesn't regard it as cheating. While mockery is inevitable at this uber-munchkinism, I hope there's no malice in it.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

AMAZING how people react when you tell them your character is 160th level.

If I posted that the newspaper USA Today had just announced the moon WAS made out of green cheese, and that NASA had proven it, I do not think it would garner half the reaction.

I guess this underscores, with a big exclamation point, just how much of a backlash the Epic Level Handbook is going to get. (I mean, after all, they openly condone Player Character dieties in there, and if that's not revolutionary (read: inflammatory) as an Official Stance, then what is?)

 

[AvarielAvenger]

AMAZING how people react when you tell them your character is 160th level.

If you really think that's the reason people are reacting negatively to you, you've got serious issues. Upper_Krust has a 117th level PC, and the times I've seen him bring it up on these boards he has never gotten the reaction you recieved.

And that's because he actually advanced his PC through levels fairly and in an actual long lived campaign. You, on the other hand, blatantly ignored the rules to advance your character as far as possible. Most people don't like cheaters. Deal with it, and stop trying to act like you're being persecuted because your PC is high level.

 

[S'mon]

AMAZING how people react when you tell them your character is 160th level.

If I posted that the newspaper USA Today had just announced the moon WAS made out of green cheese, and that NASA had proven it, I do not think it would garner half the reaction.

I guess this underscores, with a big exclamation point, just how much of a backlash the Epic Level Handbook is going to get. (I mean, after all, they openly condone Player Character dieties in there, and if that's not revolutionary (read: inflammatory) as an Official Stance, then what is?)

I do wish you wouldn't persist in regarding PC deities as somehow 'more' OTT than 160th level characters. Eg I have Avalanche Press's Ragnarok! book (not a very good book BTW) which has rules for running Norse gods of around 3rd level! The sample arch-nemesis character is a deity 5th level Rogue. Deity play can easily be low-powered by regular D&D norms, though it doesn't have to be. Edena, I think people are annoyed with you because you seem to claim that you 'earned' those 160 levels, which your explanation makes clear were not earned in the way most people here would regard as legitimate - you 'decided' on a way to level up without actually playing through those levels. This isn't vastly different from just making up a 160th level character straight off. Nothing wrong with that - I cfeated Doomstar as a 500th level NPC to terrify Upper_Krust with - but claiming to have earned the levels is what gets you the 'cheater' jibes.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Ok, enough.

Edena is a cleric/mage levels 120th/40th 2nd edition (levels in 3rd edition still unknown.)
Edena earned it.
I have explained why and how Edena earned it.

If I had thought of it as cheating, or that it wasn't properly earned, I most certainly would not have posted Edena's class levels, and how he gained them, on this high visibility worldwide forum.

There will be no further replies from me, replying to Edena Is Not A Proper Character posts in this thread.
For there is nothing more, that is productive, to say.

I will e-mail the people that I think might be able and willing to help me convert Edena from 2nd edition to 3rd edition.

- - -

Besides, this thread has gotten totally off the original topic.