To Hell with Dungeons & Dragons ! ! !

[Celebrim]

THAT is the D&D I want to play!

You'd probably be surprised to find yourself in the minority on this.

Probably the biggest persistant myth about D&D is that the Satanist scare was good for D&D. The details of the time line involved with the D&D occult/suicide scare don't support the assertion, and in fact its classic case of reversing cause and effect. D&D became popular very very rapidly; this produced the occult scare and not the other way around. Somewhere on Enworld I've got a detailed timeline defending that point.

I'll go ahead and make all the following assertions as to what I believe:

a) The Satanist scare is the reason that D&D toys aren't still being sold in the stores alongside Transformers and GI Joe.
b) The Satanist scare is the reason that we didn't see a third or fourth season of the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon.
c) The Satanist scare is the reason that we haven't seen a big screen live action version of the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon (with a terrible script and a CGI budget bigger than the GDP of many small countries).
d) The Satanist scare is the reason that all D&D movies have been embarassingly bad.
e) The Satanist scare is the reason that TSR went out of business.
f) The Satanist scare is the reason that WoW is the biggest Fantasy MMORPG, Skyrim is the biggest fantasy cRPG, and neither has D&D associated with their titles or content.

The last thing D&D needs know is more harm to its brand image at exactly the time D&D is facing bigger brand competition in the fantasy RPG market than ever before. D&D is probably not even seen by the geek community at large at this time as the leader in providing new RPG content and intellectual property, and its not going to recapture that position by lame attempts to bring back the '80's (and in a bad way at that). The total damage to the D&D brand from the occult/suicide scare in the 80's could at this point be valued in the billions of dollars.

 

[GregoryOatmeal]

I think that ship has sailed. If you recall the 3E Book of Vile Darkness discussed necrophilia and had a big scary warning label on the cover. Plus for 3E they reincorporated devils and demons, half-orcs, assassins, etc. etc. That was the early 2000s and I think all of that flew right under the radar at the height of D&D's popularity (after the 80s). They make books about demons and devils all the time and no one flinches. They'd have to do something completely distasteful and awful to reclaim that mantle.

If they want to push buttons I think it'd be cool if they brought back Al-Qadim and used it to explore issues of terrorism, stateless people, hegemony, the Arab spring, genocide, etc.

 

[Zaukrie]

Disagree. I want D&D to be fun. I want a lot of people to play it. How certain parts of society view it is not relevant to me.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

. . . and its not going to recapture that position by lame attempts to bring back the '80's . . .

Yeah, this is not what I want to see come back from the 80s.

While it is true that the entire scare was a travesty. And at that it was a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham. We don't need to remind the world that.

 

[Celebrim]

Yeah, this is not what I want to see come back from the 80s.

While it is true that the entire scare was a travesty. And at that it was a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham. We don't need to remind the world that.

Yeah, I can just see the WotC representative going into a Hasbro board meeting and saying:

"What we've decided to do with the brand is make it edgier. We think that to boost sells what we need is a lot of negative publicity about the game, and to juice up or image as being a product only for misanthropes. We want or game to be compared to cocaine in terms of its appropriateness for children, and what we really think would be best for sales is to offend as much as possible a large portion of our potential customer base. What we need to get this product to the youth is have parents associate it with teen suicide. Because really, why would we want to market or game to anyone except the subset of teens and preteens that do things solely because their parents don't approve of them. That's the market we need to get back to reaching, because really, we think that's the one we haven't done enough outreach to. I mean, who cares what the squares think anyway, it's not like they have large families and disposable income."

I would love to be fly on the wall for that. Throw in some politics too just to really spice it up, because you know, no one plays D&D except people who have the exact same politics as you do.

 

[Chaos Trip Studios]

No such thing as bad publicity. But I remember in the 90's a guy who played VtM actually killed his parents and drove his freinds to New Orleans in a stolen car so they could start their own "vampire clan." It was in the news for a week and everyone got over it.

Face it people aren't easily shocked anymore and the people who are that easily offended are in outrage mode 24/7 so nobody cares what they think. Its like a neighbor who always plays loud music, eventually you don't hear it anymore

 

[Dire Bare]

D&D would need to be sold in toy stores and Walmart to be threatening to folks like in the 80's.

Seriously, why doesn't Hasbro want D&D sold in mass marketing outlets? Or are the buyers for mass marketing worried about Tunnels and Trolls backlash? (Thank you Mr. Tom Hanks). Until D&D reaches the same market share it had in the early 80's there will be no outrage other than for nostalgias sake.

Quick correction: Tunnels & Trolls was a real RPG, one of the first fantasy RPGs that wasn't D&D. Mazes & Monsters was the Tom Hanks movie you are referring to. And it wasn't Tom's fault, he was a nobody actor during those days, had no power, and was right to take any role that came his way. Now the sequel, Mazes & Monsters 2, that Hanks is producing for 2013, that is another matter . . . . (I am soooo kidding)

Back on topic . . . why do you assume WotC doesn't want D&D sold in mass-market stores? Back during the 80's boom it was. And it is (or at least recently was) today, with the Red Box available in Target stores and perhaps other places. Regardless of how "edgy" the current version of D&D is, it is a very niche product with low sales volume compared to video games, and even popular boardgames. That's why it's been traditionally hard to find outside of hobby and comic stores. And that's a nut that WotC would love to crack!

 

[Dire Bare]

Do you see Hollywood or video game companies worried about this stuff? It's called Grand Theft Auto, not "Kinda Naughty Driving". Sex and violence are the bread and butter of big money entertainment.

D&D hasn't been edgier than Sesame Street since 2e came out. If WotC wants teenage males to care about their geriatric IP, they are going to have make it something that Mommy really doesn't like.

Or they can go the family friendly route and make it like overcooked oatmeal, its bland enough to appeal to everyone who gets easily offended.

Your point about movies and video games being "edgy" is why I think D&D could stand to move a little further into that territory.

However, it also illustrates the problem, in that the line between "edgy, yet mature" and "gratuitous sex and violence" is in a different place for folks. If D&D pushes the envelope too far, WotC won't have to worry about the mainstream public's reaction, they'll lose their existing customer base.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

No such thing as bad publicity.

There is when you are a toy company that sells things to children. I'm pretty sure a patina of satanism is even more problematic than lead in the products.

 

[Chaos Trip Studios]

The fact that Hasbro owns WoftC is not widely known. For that matter, few people know about Wizards to begin with. And my original point was this: it would be damn hard for D&D to become controversial in the popular culture. Have you seen the video games these kids play? How could D&D top that for shock value? There is a war game where you can play Taliban in PvP.

The only people who would be pissed of are the same folks who boycotted Pokemon because they "evolve."

Of course, there is one thing that scares people even more than satanism: communism! What if PCs were forced to split up their loot evenly in a communal fashion? lol

There is when you are a toy company that sells things to children. I'm pretty sure a patina of satanism is even more problematic than lead in the products.