To James Jacobs: A Growing Problem with Dungeon Magazine

[GwydapLlew]

Somebody help me out. I'm not into all this sissy poetry!

*laughs* Well, there are lots of sonnets out there.

 

[James Jacobs]

It's evidence to show the pattern, just as the examples you provided are support for issue 143's balance. Ideals are nice (33% for example) but what's actually produced is more important IMO.

Perhaps. If someone wants to go through the last 12 issues of Dungeon and build a spreadsheet and post it, more power to them. I'd certainly be interested in looking it over. But I don't need it to confirm to me what I already know—that we regularly pull content from books like Stormwrack, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual II and III, the Complete Books, Arms & Equipment Guide, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of Exalted Deeds, etc.

 

[Shroomy]

Takasi, I don't think you want to go down this path. Here is the breakdown from Issue 142

"Masque of Dreams," incorporates elements from the Mystara campaign setting, features a monster from Libris Mortis, and rules from The Book of Vile Darkness.

"Here There Be Monsters" incorporates monsters from The Fiend Folio, Dragon 318, Stormwrack, and the Fiendish Codex I. It also features the mob template from the DMGII and a class from Complete Adventurer.

"Bright Mountain King" incorporates monsters from Monster Manual IV, Monster Manual III, and Monster Manual II. It also presents feats from Complete Warrior (Improved Toughness) and Complete Arcane (Practiced Spellcaster).

This does not include any of new monsters or magic items.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

My only complaint is in horridly weak NPC's. Guys with aristocrat or expert levels that are mechanically WAY below their CR's. People wearing poor armor types or lots of throwaway feats. They dont have to be uber badasses (my current PC's arent), but a melee fighting type over level 10 shouldnt be sporting an AC under 20. Thats just free exp.

 

[Shroomy]

And Just for Fun....

Issue 141

"The Sea Wyvern's Wake" includes rules from Stormwrack, the effects of the Imbue Spell feat, the Disguise Spell feat, monsters from Fiend Folio, affiliation rewards from PHBII, and story elements pulled from FC I and The Tome of Magic. Plus, it does borrow elements from the Mystara and Greyhawk setting.

"Swords of Dragonslake" includes the Disguise Spell, Flick of the Wrist, and Ironskin Chant feat and a monster from the Miniatures Handbook.

"Vlindarian's Vault" includes a prestige class from FR Faith and Pantheons book (in a non-FR adventure to boot), a prestige class from Lords of Madness, and a monster from Monster Manual III.

 

[takasi]

Takasi, I don't think you want to go down this path.

Well the OP was specifically referring to spells. I would also say that if a feat or monster is completely republished in Dungeon then it really isn't a "reference" to a non-core source. I would argue that any class reference is since you would want the sourcebook to be able to advance the NPC if necessary.

143 has a lot of references that basically point you directly to another sourcebook entirely. When I have time I will go through all my issues of Dungeon in 2006 and break down the exact percentage (along with my method) for every mechanical element in every adventure.

 

[Shroomy]

Well the OP was specifically referring to spells. I would also say that if a feat or monster is completely republished in Dungeon then it really isn't a "reference" to a non-core source. I would argue that any class reference is since you would want the sourcebook to be able to advance the NPC if necessary.

143 has a lot of references that basically point you directly to another sourcebook entirely. When I have time I will go through all my issues of Dungeon in 2006 and break down the exact percentage (along with my method) for every mechanical element in every adventure.

But you weren't referring specifically to spells, and neither did you qualify what you meant by the usage of core vs. non-core content. Saying that you meant only references instead of reprints seems like an equivocation in the face of mounting evidence that does not support your conclusions.

 

[WampusCat43]

I think the reason you don't (and won't) see an alternate list of spells - in the magazine or fully listed in the online expansion - is summed up in a single word in James' first post: "breakneck".

 

[takasi]

But you weren't referring specifically to spells, and neither did you qualify what you meant by the usage of core vs. non-core content. Saying that you meant only references instead of reprints seems like an equivocation in the face of mounting evidence that does not support your conclusions.

Of course I didn't qualify my exact meaning; I've said several times I'm not going to go into detail at this time. You gathered what you felt was "evidence" but that has nothing to do with my view. This entire thread, from the OP and all arguments afterwards, would indicate that complete reprints were not the main issue. The main problem people in here have been complaining about is what to do when an adventure references a book they don't use.

For example, 143 has many references where you cannot use the monster at all unless you have the non-core book. This is a pretty rare occurance.

 

[Shroomy]

For example, 143 has many references where you cannot use the monster at all unless you have the non-core book. This is a pretty rare occurance.

Where? All the monsters in 143 have full stat-blocks reprinted except in the IoD wander monster tables. The only exception would be an ECS reference in an Eberron adventure dealing with artificier infusions.