To Kill or Not to Kill

[Malk]

So in another thread I read a line that I see repeated often, "without the fear of death there is no intrest in the game.

See now personaly I disagree with this, quite emphaticaly in fact. I have tried several times over the course of my roleplaying career to run a game where death was always a possiblity, and I have always found that killing a pc makes me feel bad. Killing a pc usualy harms the story. Killing a pc usualy makes the player feel bad. So in our games, my group generaly have pc's that last from the begining to the end of the campaign. The story flourishes, the players connect with their pc's, the pc's connect to each other and everyone is happy.

People say that there is no challenge any more and that the charectars begin to act invincible. Maybe my group is just really good at keeping metagame out of the in charectar game but i have never seen this problem develop. They roleplay their char's as if they were really in that situation...and most of the time are deathly affraid of various bad guys and whatnot.

One thing that I have always disliked is when people basicaly assume that their own game is better than everyone elses because they play a certain way, and trust me thats not what I am trying to do. This style of play is simply the one that works for my group, but I am curious as to how people reconcile pc deaths in games where it is not uncommon. How do you deal with the dissapointment of losiing this creative personality that you have spent so long investing life into?

So give me your thoughts. What is the stance on charectar death in your game and why? And please no one trash anyone elses views.

 

[diaglo]

So give me your thoughts. What is the stance on charectar death in your game and why? And please no one trash anyone elses views.

sorry, i can't answer this without trashing your stance.

 

[Cerubus Dark]

By its very nature death should be something to fear. But in D&D settings you often have clerics who could raise the dead back to life. Death should never loose its sting.

In my Campaign death of a pc works as such

1st time a character dies Loose 1 level and 1 con point, the con point can not be regained by restoration.

2nd time a character dies loose 2 levels and 1d6 con and 1d4 str. again the points maynot be regained with restoration.

3rd time... death cannot be avoided and the charcter's soul is sent to the Abyss as punishment for avoiding death.

Now keep in mind I have two types of deaths in my setting, those that are story driven and those that are player faults. Story driven deaths do not count towards the raise dead limits. Player faults are their countable.

 

[Nifft]

I say you need fear of loss, and potential for reward. Death is certainly one kind of loss, and GP & XP are two kinds of reward.

-- N

 

[Henry]

Here's the thing - in my games, death IS uncommon, but it still occurs. The players make bad choices, the PC's can die for it. As long as the player understands this fact beforehand, there really shouldn't be any harsh feelings. I wouldn't say death is frequent in my games, but in all cases it's happened, the PC's were resurrected (in exchange for money or favors), and the game continued. It's happened three times in the last 20 games (that's a period of six months) and two of them were in the same battle just recently.

I find that allowing death to take place actually hones the ability of players to think on their feet; with my players, if death was not an issue, then play would get far more reckless. If they are good creative players, whether you'll kill them in bad choices is irrelevant - but one CAN go so far in this mindset as to be UNABLE to let a PC die - I've heard some horror stories about players who tested their DM just to see how far they could go before the DM let them die. It ended in a bunch of players intentionally ticking off the DM, setting a ship on fire, and staying on board the ship intentionally until they drowned!

Some DM's fix things such that the PC's have script immunity, and others don't. I'm of the opinion that no PC death for most players means that adventure holds no surprises. For a good example of a recent story series that uses character death to great effect, I point to both Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel - the willingness to kill off main characters is one point that helps in keeping the viewers guessing and tuned in. Threat of death is one thing that can sometimes keep players "tuned in" as well.

 

[Piratecat]

I had a DM once who absolutely refused to kill my character. I was the center of several subplots, and no matter what dumbass or near-suicidal thing I did I just couldn't die. It drove me nuts. I'd much rather reap the consequences of my actions.

 

[Rackhir]

For me at least it's not a question of meta-gaming vs non metagaming. I find that most DMs who are reluctant to let characters die also are reluctant to challenge the characters to their full extent. So combats tend to be on the walkover side.

My favorite kind of adventures are the ones where you are desperately fighting for your life and barely come through it by the skin of your teeth. So the lack of the possibility of death robs victory of much of its sweetness and leaves it kind of hollow and empty.

 

[diaglo]

I had a DM once who absolutely refused to kill my character. I was the center of several subplots, and no matter what dumbass or near-suicidal thing I did I just couldn't die. It drove me nuts. I'd much rather reap the consequences of my actions.

this was going to be my answer. but Malk asked us not to trash others' views.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I've heard some horror stories about players who tested their DM just to see how far they could go before the DM let them die.

I play with a DM who's kind of like this.

I played my dear elven Fighter/Thief (this was 2E) as recklessly as possible, charging BBEG after I had been blinded, running through Ice Walls, etc. The last time I died, I insisted on making my resurrection roll (If I died, getting raised was not even a slight inconvenience). I had a 98% chance of succeeding, and I tried not to express my utmost joy when I rolled 99.

I really liked that character, dear old Jumjin Hexean. I'll probably try him out in another campaing.

As for the matter at hand, I'd say that you don't have to actually die to be afraid of death.

AR

 

[diaglo]

It ended in a bunch of players intentionally ticking off the DM, setting a ship on fire, and staying on board the ship intentionally until they drowned!

as a player i had a similar reaction/experience

came after we were railroaded into slavery aboard a ship 500 leagues away from the start of our adventure.

are you sure you weren't there Henry?