ToB:B9S - A fix for White Raven Tactics?

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The fix sets limits to actions a character can take in a round versus a character's turn.

• One (non-quickened) spell can be cast per round.

• One swift action can be taken per round.

• One immediate action can be taken per round even when its not your turn, even if a swift action has already been used that round, but eats up your next round's swift action.

• Attack a number of times up to a maximum that a full attack action would grant you, modified for any feats or spells in play, but not counting Free attacks granted by (Great) Cleave (those would still trigger as free attacks normally).

• Move up to double your speed (more if you run).

• One (or a set number of) Attack of Opportunity.

With this fix, White Raven Tactics grants you a second turn if you've already acted in the round, but you cannot exceed any of the above limitations in a single round.

To balance this back a little I would allow WRT to work on yourself (I had previuosly ruled that it would not).

So someone targeted by this could move in and attack on their original initiative. Then after being effected by White Raven Tactics, complete their full-round attack or even attack and move as long as they stay within all the limits set above. This fix still grants you more than you could accomplish on your own, but stops a BBEG mage with four crusader cohorts from firing off five+ spells per round.


Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[Someone]

I'll change it to grant a one-round (3.5!) Haste effect. It's about the right power level, and is easier to adjudicate, more familiar, and doesn't create additional actions or mess with initiative.

 

[Nifft]

My favorite fix for WRT is to emulate a Quickened snake's swiftness -- your ally gains a single attack or may move up to his speed.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

My favorite fix for WRT is to emulate a Quickened snake's swiftness -- your ally gains a single attack or may move up to his speed.

Cheers, -- N

(I think I asked you the same on the WotC boards - but that thread seemed to die quick)

What book is snake's swiftness from? I am unfamiliar with that spell.

 

[Nifft]

(I think I asked you the same on the WotC boards - but that thread seemed to die quick)

What book is snake's swiftness from? I am unfamiliar with that spell.

D'oh! Missed your follow-up.

It's from the Mini HB. It's a low-level Druid spell, if I recall correctly. I've seen it used mostly in D&D Minis.

The basic changes to WRT would be:
- Range increases to 30 ft. (from 10 ft.)
- Granted action changes to Attack or Move (from Full-Round)

It's still darn useful, and it fills in the Marshal's old Grant Move Action ability, which came into play around the same level.

Cheers, -- N

 

[SteveC]

What I suggested to my GM is that the ability requires each of the participants to use a swift action to activate it, and to explicitly say that the manifesting character is not affected by it. That means you can only use it once per round, which seems to be the chief issue with it.

With that said, the idea that it works like mass snake's swiftness, seems to be an even better idea.

--Steve

 

[Nifft]

What I suggested to my GM is that the ability requires each of the participants to use a swift action to activate it

You lost me... we're talking about the 3rd level boost White Raven Tactics, right?

There would be 2 'participants' normally, and only 1 if abused terribly.

Cheers, -- N

 

[SteveC]

You lost me... we're talking about the 3rd level boost White Raven Tactics, right?

There would be 2 'participants' normally, and only 1 if abused terribly.

Cheers, -- N

Yes, perhaps that didn't come out quite right. What I meant was that if you were going to get the benefits of the maneuver (i.e., get an extra action) it cost you your swift action to get it. In our group this meant that the wizard would use the benefits of the maneuver a lot less, because he tends to use his swift actions most rounds for other things (swift spells). The fighter, on the other hand, wouldn't really care, but he also couldn't get the effects of the maneuver more than once per round.

Makes sense?

--Steve

 

[castro3nw]

I'm actually cool with WRT if you can't use it on yourself, and can't gain its effect more than once per round. If you're really terrified of it, maybe you could call it as only gain its effect once/encounter.

Cutting it down to only a single attack destroys a lot of the utility of the maneuver.

It's also one of the Warblade's few ranged attacks...
"Oh.. um.. I don't really have a bow per say... So... Can you shoot yours a couple more times and say I did it? Thanks."

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I'm actually cool with WRT if you can't use it on yourself, and can't gain its effect more than once per round. If you're really terrified of it, maybe you could call it as only gain its effect once/encounter.

Cutting it down to only a single attack destroys a lot of the utility of the maneuver.

It's also one of the Warblade's few ranged attacks...
"Oh.. um.. I don't really have a bow per say... So... Can you shoot yours a couple more times and say I did it? Thanks."

Using it on yourself or another melee or ranged attacker is the weakest use of WRT IMO.

Using it even once per round on the party spellcaster is like a free Quicken on his highest level spell available.

Also, changing your initiative count brings up alot of weird questions.