ToB:B9S - A fix for White Raven Tactics?

[Nifft]

Cutting it down to only a single attack destroys a lot of the utility of the maneuver.

It's also one of the Warblade's few ranged attacks...
"Oh.. um.. I don't really have a bow per say... So... Can you shoot yours a couple more times and say I did it? Thanks."

Remember, though, that it only costs the PC a Swift action. So in theory, he could be using a Strike and also letting his friend get a full attack. Trading your Swift action for a single attack (of any kind, including ranged) isn't terrible, particularly if your PC would have been unable to do anything useful in that round thanks to his melee focus.

If it cost a full-round action, then I'd consider letting it grant a move or full-attack action... but as a Boost, a full-attack action is a bit too potent, IMHO.

Cheers, -- N

 

[castro3nw]

Quickened highest-level spell from the caster is a best case scenario... It'll happen once in a while, but a lot of the time you're not in position to reach your caster buddy or he's out of highest level spells...

Really, after the first round (where I usually just use it to improve the initiative of whoever needs to go for the particular fight) I'm often out of range of anyone except maybe another melee guy or the cleric.

I'm not saying its not a really powerful maneuver... I'm just sayin it's slightly less powerful in practice than on paper and, for me, enough fun to be worth it

 

[Drowbane]

D'oh! Missed your follow-up.

It's from the Mini HB. It's a low-level Druid spell, if I recall correctly. I've seen it used mostly in D&D Minis.

The basic changes to WRT would be:
- Range increases to 30 ft. (from 10 ft.)
- Granted action changes to Attack or Move (from Full-Round)

It's still darn useful, and it fills in the Marshal's old Grant Move Action ability, which came into play around the same level.

Cheers, -- N

Snakes Swiftness, and Mass Snakes Swiftness were both reprinted in the Spell Compendium also. My Druid gets alot out of the Mass version...

 

[Drowbane]

Using it on yourself or another melee or ranged attacker is the weakest use of WRT IMO.

Using it even once per round on the party spellcaster is like a free Quicken on his highest level spell available.

Also, changing your initiative count brings up alot of weird questions.

You seem to be assuming that "yourself" isn't also a Caster. Easily worth the 2 feats you'd need to take to get it... even for 1/encounter (two feats for a superior version of Sudden Quicken...).

 

[castro3nw]

Easily worth the 2 feats you'd need to take to get it at 12th level minimum... even for 1/encounter (two feats for a superior version of Sudden Quicken...).

Bold is mine... Fixed.

 

[Nifft]

Bold is mine... Fixed.

Am I missing something?

1/ It's available at 10th level minimum, assuming you gain a feat at 10th level; and

2/ Broken (prereq: level 12) is still broken.

Cheers, -- N

 

[castro3nw]

Am I missing something?

1/ It's available at 10th level minimum, assuming you gain a feat at 10th level; and

2/ Broken (prereq: level 12) is still broken.

Cheers, -- N

1) You're 100% right, 10t level. I'm just assuming since it was a caster being discussed, that it'd be a straight caster, and I don't think any of them get a fighter bonus feat at 10 or 11. (I could be wrong) So, first level of getting a new feat after 10 is 12. Hence level 12 min.

2) I'm not really necessarily arguing for or against the broken-ness. I just see a lot of people say "Only 2 feats" and don't want people to misinterpret that and think something like, "Ouch.. level 1, human... 2 feats... broken" when it takes some more time/effort than that.

All I'm really trying to argue in the first place is that if you don't set out trying to break it, WRT can be a lot of fun from a teamwork and a utility point of view. You can keep that functionality by limiting it to others only, and benefit once/round. If you ban it or nerf it hard, you lose the fun too.

 

[blargney the second]

I'd go with this: swift action that allows an ally within 10' to take a single attack at their highest BAB. Also, they're no longer flatfooted if they haven't acted yet in this combat.

 

[Nifft]

1) You're 100% right, 10t level. I'm just assuming since it was a caster being discussed, that it'd be a straight caster, and I don't think any of them get a fighter bonus feat at 10 or 11. (I could be wrong) So, first level of getting a new feat after 10 is 12. Hence level 12 min.

There's a Wizard variant (in UA) that gives Fighter bonus feats instead of the usual batch of Wizard bonus feats.

2) I'm not really necessarily arguing for or against the broken-ness. I just see a lot of people say "Only 2 feats" and don't want people to misinterpret that and think something like, "Ouch.. level 1, human... 2 feats... broken" when it takes some more time/effort than that.

Ah, yes, that's a point.

My game has been above 12th level for a while, and allowing White Raven Tactics unchanged would significantly alter the power dynamics -- there are two Wizards in the party, you see. (So as expected, I'm most conscious of what would impact my game. )

Anyway: IMHO, trading 1 Swift action for 1 attack is sweet. Trading 1 Swift action for 1 move action is also sweet, since it allows a move + Full Attack. And the teamwork aspect is nice, but I'd expand the range to 30 ft. just because IMHO the 10 ft. limit was there to try to compensate for the (too strong) full-round action granted.

Cheers, -- N

 

[castro3nw]

Ah, yes, that's a point.

My game has been above 12th level for a while, and allowing White Raven Tactics unchanged would significantly alter the power dynamics -- there are two Wizards in the party, you see. (So as expected, I'm most conscious of what would impact my game. )

*grins* Almost all of the games I've been in lately have started at 1, and died out/run their course well before 12 was even on the horizon. (So, conversely, I'm less worried about things i don't have to deal with)

Granted, we just hit 10 in one game, with a Crown of the White Raven (novice) and a wizard who can cast Heroism.. So thats WRT for anyone w/o any feats. But then, we just don't do it, 'cuz fairly quickly it'd become unfun for the DM.