TOB: Stance progression: problems for crusader

[hamishspence]

Crusaders get their last stance at 14th level. This means they cannot take 8th level stances without either multiclassing or taking Martial Study + Martial stance (prerequisite)
And according to Sage Advice in Dragon, you can't delay learning a stance. So a basic crusader can't even take a 8th level stance from devoted Spirit, which is unique to him of the 3 classes.

Swordsages have a similar problem, not quite as bad: they can't take any 8th level stances till 20th level, without multiclassing/taking feats.

Warblades haven't much to complain about, apart from: being required to take 1st level stance as second stance, since they get it 1 level before 3rd level stances become available.

Is this a significant problem, or a method of balancing the classes?

I personally would modify the stance progression, OR allow delay in learning 1 stance, 1 level only, to fix this problem.

Views?

 

[Beckett]

If you want the high level stances, you spend a feat for Martial Stance (which I'm pretty sure you don't need Martial Study for, as you'll already know several manuevers). It's costly, but those high level stances are worth it.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I agree. Since there is a mechanism to do so at a cost (a feat) I see no reason to change the progression, especially to make the base classes more powerful.

 

[pawsplay]

How do they fare if they go Master of the Nine?

 

[Kurotowa]

If you want the high level stances, you spend a feat for Martial Stance (which I'm pretty sure you don't need Martial Study for, as you'll already know several manuevers). It's costly, but those high level stances are worth it.

I disagree. Why should basic class features cost a feat to get? The stance progression on all the classes seems horribly borked to me, and ought to be adjusted so that you acquire a new stance at or near the level that new stances become available.

 

[blargney the second]

It is a little strange. A "Behind the Curtains" sidebar explanation would be nice...

 

[hong]

I just let people delay getting the stance.

 

[BASHMAN]

Another option then would be to take 6 levels in another class, Then go up as a crusader, as at 14th level in crusader, you would be a 17th level initiator, allowing you access to 8th level stances.

 

[brehobit]

I just let people delay getting the stance.

I think that's a power-up that isn't intended for an already powerful set of classes. I've been assuming this was quite intentional, but I've been wondering if it was all just an attempt to balance "cool stuff per level".

 

[hong]

I think that's a power-up that isn't intended for an already powerful set of classes. I've been assuming this was quite intentional, but I've been wondering if it was all just an attempt to balance "cool stuff per level".

Eh. Not being able to get your own highest-level stance is stupid.