D&D 5E Toll the Chest

[Maxperson]

Speculation that is correct! The threat is as good as detected. It is absurd to claim that the monster that the characters can directly see, to which their attention is focused on, could surprise them. The only way mimic could do that is that the characters believe it to be a harmless object, which they in this instance absolutely are not doing.

This. I can see @Hriston's argument for using stealth/perception to notice a Mimic, since the lore and ability contradict one another, but it's ridiculous to think that the Cleric in the OP could be surprised.

 

[Hriston]

Run it how you want, but that doesn't make any sense at all. A person will not be surprised by the their suspicion turning out to be correct.

If a player says that their character intently watches the red door in case the orcs will barge in, and then the orcs barge in via the red door, the character won't be surprised by that!

It will if they attack without being noticed.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It will if they attack without being noticed.

It has been noticed, the characters are staring at it!

 

[Hriston]

You are required to be completely unaware of the enemy for surprise to happen by RAW. They have noticed the chest so surprise isn't possible if they are suspicious, whereas the group has not noticed the stealth Mind Flayer around the corner.

They've noticed a chest. A chest is not a threat. This is the whole point of the False Appearance ability.

Two interconnected reasons prevent it from devolving into that. The first reason is that you very rarely use mimics. The second reason is that because you very rarely use mimics, they will waste a ton of time poking at normal crap and become bored with it very quickly.

I think the only reason the OP happened is that treasure chests are virtually never just left alone in the middle of a non-descript room. That encounter was just asking for PC/player suspicion.

Being suspicious that something poses a threat is not the same as noticing a threat. To notice a hidden threat (which the mimic is) you need to beat the result of its Stealth check with your Perception.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

They've noticed a chest. A chest is not a threat. This is the whole point of the False Appearance ability.

But they're not fooled by it! They don't believe it to be a normal chest!

Being suspicious that something poses a threat is not the same as noticing a threat. To notice a hidden threat (which the mimic is) you need to beat the result of its Stealth check with your Perception.

This is just stupid. What if it is a troll? We don't know a troll is a threat either, it could be a friendly troll. Do we now roll stealth vs perception to see whether we are surprised by a troll in plain sight?

 

[Maxperson]

They've noticed a chest. A chest is not a threat. This is the whole point of the False Appearance ability.

They noticed a chest, which they are suspicious of and are completely ready for it to attack them.

Being suspicious that something poses a threat is not the same as noticing a threat.

Yes it is. If you are walking down the street holding a gun and I notice you, I've noticed a threat. Even if you have no intention of shooting at me. Same if you are just walking down the street in a super bad mood with no weapon drawn. If I'm watching you just in case you might be a threat, you cannot possibly surprise me.

To notice a hidden threat (which the mimic is) you need to beat the result of its Stealth check with your Perception.

The Mimic is 100% not hidden. It's right there for all to see.

 

[cbwjm]

I think especially in the situation outlined in the OP, that a single chest is sitting in the middle of a room is more than enough for players who are probing it with a toll the dead spell to avoid any sort of surprise. In this case, the mimic chose a poor location to entrap its prey. Had the mimic set itself up in a nondescript room such as a bedroom where it appears just like it's part of the furniture, then it is more likely to surprise adventurers.

 

[Maxperson]

Heck @Hriston, it wouldn't even be stealth at all. It would be deception which involves disguises and passing yourself off as something that you are not. The Mimic is literally doing nothing that stealth applies to. It has no proficiency at deception.

 

[Hriston]

Speculation that is correct! The threat is as good as detected. It is absurd to claim that a monster that the characters can directly see, to which their attention is focused on, could surprise them. The only way a mimic could do that is that the characters believe it to be a harmless object, which they in this instance absolutely are not doing.

Yes, it would be absurd, if they had actually seen the mimic. But they didn't see a mimic. All they saw was a chest. They don't need to believe it's just a chest to be surprised when it attacks them. They just need to have not directly perceived that it's not a chest but a creature, which is precisely what happened.

 

[Hriston]

It has been noticed, the characters are staring at it!

A chest was noticed. The characters are staring at a chest. They haven't noticed that the chest is actually a threatening creature.