Tome of Battle - Are they serious?

[Barak]

Keep in mind that not all 'balance factors' of a prestige class occur within the class itself. If a PrC gives full caster progression along with other goodies, but requires enough non-caster levels to enter it, it could still balance the net (pre-entry) loss of caster levels against the added abilities. Not to say that I've looked at every full-caster progresion PrC to confirm that this is the case, just a point to keep in mind (I have a DM who seems to be missing this, so it stood out to me.)

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (Complete Arcane) offers full spell progression, it's prereqs are easy to get (if not -overly- great feats to take) for a wizard, and gives pretty awesome abilities.

 

[boredgremlin]

Looking at the preview for Tome of Battle that's up on the WoTC site, I noticed the following feat:



So my question is this - does a Wizard who takes this feat and wields a dagger suddenly become immune to grappling? Are they serious? I admit that this post is reactionary, but my initial reaction is definitely leaning toward WTF.

Does this look as bad to you as it does to me? If so, does that bode ill for the contents of the full book? I'm wondering how much play-testing went into it, based on the preview.

sounds like it screws all mid to high level combat characters, not just grapplers. So much for hitting the wizard before he casts finger of death or hightened maximized meteor swarm or something. Just one more way WoTC gives every non wizard a giant finger in thier works. i am not surprised at all.

 

[Matafuego]

sounds like it screws all mid to high level combat characters, not just grapplers. So much for hitting the wizard before he casts finger of death or hightened maximized meteor swarm or something. Just one more way WoTC gives every non wizard a giant finger in thier works. i am not surprised at all.

How does it prevent getting hit ?????
Am I missing something???

I also think it should only be allowed to be used if you can take a 5 foot step this round... otherwise there's too much movement floating around?

 

[Felon]

A terrible truth about D&D is that it uses the same mechanics for everything, thus, new bonuses resemble old bonuses.

The difference between "Weapon Focus" and "Divine Favour" is very small indeed; they both provide a bonus to attack. The difference is that one is presumed to be from extra training, the other a divine gift.

All good and well, but we're not talking about a non-magical +1 bonus to attack rolls with a given weapon. We're talking about a non-magically summoned fire elemental that aids you in battle. Some things are much more plausibly placed under the heading of "extraordinary ability" than others.

However, needless to say, I do desperately want to see warriros gain the non-magical ability to fly by twirling their swords around over their heads really really fast.

 

[Felon]

sounds like it screws all mid to high level combat characters, not just grapplers. So much for hitting the wizard before he casts finger of death or hightened maximized meteor swarm or something.

What are you going on about?

Evasive Reflexes doesn't give the wizard a 5 foot step when he provokes an attack of opportunity. He gets it when someone else provokes an Ao0.

Not that that matters. Any wizard who's in a threatened square is going to cast defensively, and you won't get any AoO anyhow.

Just one more way WoTC gives every non wizard a giant finger in thier works. i am not surprised at all.

I wonder: if you take all the guys who make over-the-top generalizations about how WotC fawns on wizards and force them into contact with all of the people who make wild generalizations about how WotC give wizards the shaft at every opportunity, would their psychoses cancel each out and produce a rational person?

 

[Mad Mac]

It's pretty obvious just from the style names that the various paths are supposed to represent mystical fighting arts, as opposed to "Improved whacking things +3", and "Better Blocking+2". I wouldn't go so far as calling them spellcasting though, either.

I like the styles, personally, and it looks like they each support a different approach to combat, which is nifty.

Not to mention I can't help but notice that you just get complaints from the other side of the aisle if Wizards tries giving classes the ability to do crazy stunts without it being officially classified as spellcasting.

 

[Turjan]

I think of all the new 'base classes' that have been introduced, the ONLY one that I've got any use for at all is the Warlock.

I somehow have the feeling that the base class selection the WotC designers made for PHB II gives a good idea as to which ones they actually see worthwhile:

Favored Soul, Hexblade, Marshal, Scout, Swashbuckler, Warlock, Warmage .

 

[Vanuslux]

Another step closer to Dungeons & Dragonballs.

 

[EricNoah]

Evasive reflexes actually makes some sense to me. When your opponent gives you an opening, you should be able to choose an attack or a small amount of movement. I kind of want to let everyone do this without the feat, actually!

 

[Mad Mac]

But rather than generalize, lets look at each sample style individually:

Desert Wind: This is possibly the most magical style. It seems to be based on a combination of speed and fire manipulation. First thing that springs to mind is a tumbling dervish with a flaming scimitar.

Devoted Spirit: Very defensive style overall, but with a twist. A fighter who masters this style might be able to outlast most fighters, but only if he's hitting consistantly....Still a Tank, but not as boring as the guy hiding behind a towersheild and fighting defensively.

Diamond Mind: This style obviously relies heavily on Concentration checks, which gives it an interesting flavor, but the 3 sample abilities are too random to demonstrate what this style excells most at. Not outwardly mystical or magical from what we see here.

Iron Heart: Despite the name, this is apparently a reckless offense based style. I guess the "Iron Heart" refers to courage. Nothing mystical here, just offense over defense.

Setting Sun: I suppose this is a judo-esque evasive style, with a good amount of battlefield control. Mighty Throw is cool.

Shadow Hand: Looks like a stealth based style. Semi-mystical, but no more so than the Shadowdancer.

Stone Dragon: Eh, the theme is strength and endurance, I guess. No more magical than the Barbarian.

Tiger Claw: Cool, a feral animalistic style. Scent is as magical as it gets.

White Raven:Tactical/Leadership style. Again, not magical. Notice especially the two "Leading the" abilities which apparently set a trend for granting bonuses when the group basically does what he does.

Edit: How old is Dragonball now, anyway? I think people who gripe about the anime-zation of D&D need to dig up a new show title to throw out. lest they start looking dangerously unhip. "Man, 4 Edition is so Naruto now, you know what I mean?"