Tome of Battle - Are they serious?

[Vanuslux]

The funny thing is that because I quipped about the abilities reminding me of Dragonball, you've assumed that I'm griping about the anime-zation of D&D. Which I'm not. I love anime and I don't object at all to D&D drawing inspiration from those sources. I was just making a joke. Yeesh.

 

[Felon]

But rather than generalize, lets look at each sample style individually:

Desert Wind: This is possibly the most magical style. It seems to be based on a combination of speed and fire manipulation. First thing that springs to mind is a tumbling dervish with a flaming scimitar.

Thanks, you can pull over here and let me out. I got what I need. The way I see it, either the styles allow for effects that are patently magical, or they don't. Trying to take a head count to prove that they're 80% non-magical really doesn't mitigate anything. There's no such thing as half-pregnant.

Here's the text we get in the preview:

The Sublime Way is not magical -- at least, not in a normal sense. It is a fighting system that harnesses a student's discipline and determination through knowledge, practice, and study. A master of the Sublime Way can perform martial exploits that are nearly superhuman -- and, in fact, some of them actually transcend the natural.

So, stances aren't magical, but they sorta are. Not really though. They're almost superhuman, but not quite, although some of them transcend naturality. Hmm. This almost makes me believe there is such a thing as half-pregnant after all...

Look, if it's giving fighters magical abilities, that's fine. They just ought to come out and say so, but they don't want to because they suspect that'll turn a lot of folks off.

 

[Matafuego]

Well... if there's such thing as half-death...

 

[Agent Oracle]

So, stances aren't magical, but they sorta are. Not really though. They're almost superhuman, but not quite, although some of them transcend naturality. Hmm. This almost makes me believe there is such a thing as half-pregnant after all...

Look, if it's giving fighters magical abilities, that's fine. They just ought to come out and say so, but they don't want to because they suspect that'll turn a lot of folks off.

(shrugs) In the real world, Bruce Lee perfected a technique called the one-inch punch. With it, he was able to, with only a single inch of movement, strike a man so hard that they would be knocked backwards. At the time, people called it superhuman. claimed it would never be duplicated. Now, it is a widely accepted technique. Taught in one of his books nonetheless.

 

[Mad Mac]

Vanuslux: Nah, I was just kidding around myself, not so much picking on you. So no worries.

Felon: Eh, "super-human on the edge of magical" isn't some new-fangled idea Wizards came up with to trick people. It's in the fluff text for the monk, as well as being the normal description for just about anything fictional based on martial arts. If you don't like it, that's fine, but It's not like they just now came up with this crazy idea where fighters can act like Soul Calibur characters.

Edit:

So, stances aren't magical, but they sorta are. Not really though. They're almost superhuman, but not quite, although some of them transcend naturality. Hmm. This almost makes me believe there is such a thing as half-pregnant after all...

Riiiiight. That totally doesn't describe a system where a master of the Desert Wind gets +10 speed (not quite superhuman) but can also light his weapon on fire. (He's now officially gone past natural ) Yeah, I guess that description makes no sense for a system that's only "80% non-mystical".

 

[Hawkeye]

There's no such thing as half-pregnant.

This is D&D 3.x. Give it time and there will be some sort of half-pregnant, half dragon 3/4 emu character out there.

Regarding the age of Dragonball: I saw my first episode in 1988 and, IIRC, it has been around a few years before I saw it.

Hawkeye

 

[Agent Oracle]

"Dragonball" (not Z) is from 1984. That's when the comic first started appearing in Shonen Jump. So if there IS a "dragonball era" it's having a heck of a good run.

Me? I like to think we're moving into a "Ghost in the shell" era. Players are more interested in getting stealthier. Sure, they could just pitch a fireball, but why bother? it's much more badass for them to repeatedly get suprise rounds against enemies.

 

[mmu1]

The one (small) problem I have with this feat is that it doesn't just let you ignore grapples - it lets you ignore trips, disarms and bull-rushes too, if they're being done by someone without the "Improved" feat, which I think could be a step in the wrong direction... I'd rather see people trying special maneuvers more often, even if they don't have the specialized feats. It keeps things more interesting.

I'm also positive that, before long, someone will post some mind-bogglingly broken application of it involving a spiked chain and Combat Reflexes.

 

[Felon]

Riiiiight. That totally doesn't describe a system where a master of the Desert Wind gets +10 speed (not quite superhuman) but can also light his weapon on fire. (He's now officially gone past natural ) Yeah, I guess that description makes no sense for a system that's only "80% non-mystical".

I'm glad you agree, otherwise I'd have to explain that we're talking about mutually-exclusive conditions. On or off. Human and superhuman. Magical and non-magical. It's not possible to be both, and in the latter case you can't be neither. Pick one side of the fence and own up to it.

 

[Felon]

The one (small) problem I have with this feat is that it doesn't just let you ignore grapples - it lets you ignore trips, disarms and bull-rushes too, if they're being done by someone without the "Improved" feat, which I think could be a step in the wrong direction... I'd rather see people trying special maneuvers more often, even if they don't have the specialized feats. It keeps things more interesting.

I'm also positive that, before long, someone will post some mind-bogglingly broken application of it involving a spiked chain and Combat Reflexes.

Well, assuming that the 5-foot step means the attack that provoked the AoO can't succeed unless the attacker has reach, I'd say we are already looking pretty iffy. All you have to do is load up things like Hold the Line and the let suckers swing at your dust cloud. On your turn, 5-foot step and full attack.