Tome of Battle Monk class?

[GreatLemur]

Has anyone considered reworking one of the Tome of Battle classes to create an unarmed martial artist class as an alternative to the Monk? I've always been pretty dissatisfied with the PHB Monk--particularly the medium BAB progression, the lack of any particularly interesting martial arts stuff, and the emphasis on mystical abilities--and the Tome of Battle is looking like a great way to fix that . . . if only the "Book of Nine Swords" wasn't so sword-focused.

I haven't done a hell of a lot of thinking about this, yet, but I'm considering reworking the Warblade toward this end. I'd ditch the martial weapon, armor, and shield proficiency, knock the hit die down to d10 or d8, switch the good saving throw from Fort to Ref, throw out Weapon Aptitude, and then bring in the Monk's Unarmed Strike ability, Unarmed Damage progression, and AC Bonus progression. I might throw in Fast Movement, too, or else replace it with some kind of initiative bonus progression. And, of course, the Warblade's available disciplines and bonus feats should probably be screwed around with, too.

Hm. When I actually write it all down, it seems like a far weaker class than the Warblade, particularly since the Monk abilities I'm giving it are only there to compensate for the lack of weapons and armor. Maybe I can throw in Flurry of Blows? That might be too much, though, when combined with a good BAB and a pile of Tome of Battle maneuvers. Maybe I should drop some of the Battle [whatever] class abilities, then. They all seem like they ought to be feats, anyway.

What do you think, folks?

 

[starwed]

if only the "Book of Nine Swords" wasn't so sword-focused.

It isn't, really... almost all the styles have unarmed strikes as one of their special weapons. And there is a feat in there which ups the base unarmed strike damage (not that it matters much, when you're relying on maneuvers to dish out damage.)

I don't think any reworking is necessary to play a swordsage as a monk-like character. You could simply not choose the more mystical maneuvers if those bother you.

 

[Laman Stahros]

Swordsage is the monk, as far as I am concerned. The Diamond Mind style is what the monk tries to be. Why not just use it that way?

 

[GreatLemur]

Swordsage is the monk, as far as I am concerned. The Diamond Mind style is what the monk tries to be. Why not just use it that way?

That medium BAB is a big part of what I want to avoid. Also, Sense Magic as a class ability doesn't really fit my idea of a basic martial artist.

I will have to check out that unarmed strike damage feat starwed mentioned, though. I didn't know about that one...

 

[starwed]

I think it is called "Superior Unarmed Strike." It gives you a wussier version of the monks unarmed damage progression. (Tops out with 2d6 at 20th level, I think.) Or, if you're already a monk, it grants you unarmed damage of a monk 4 levels higher.

 

[DreamChaser]

That medium BAB is a big part of what I want to avoid.

You mean like the monk has?

 

[GreatLemur]

You mean like the monk has?

Exactly.

 

[comrade raoul]

Again, I don't see any reason not to use the swordsage, because there's no good reason to avoid the medium BAB. The swordsage is a very, very powerful combatant despite his attack progression.

On the other hand, I'm skeptical of the efficacy of posting almost any ToB-related material to House Rules. Because it's very difficult (to put it charitably) to see conclusively that the mechanics are balanced with most other published material, it's hard to evaluate the balance of house rules based on that material. I think the best advice to people who are thinking about using material from the Tome of Battle is to guess as best they can whether it's a good fit for a particular group playing a particular game; it fits so strangely with everything else that it can't really be assessed in a vacuum.

 

[GreatLemur]

Again, I don't see any reason not to use the swordsage, because there's no good reason to avoid the medium BAB. The swordsage is a very, very powerful combatant despite his attack progression.

I think a front-line melee class should have a Fighter-level BAB, especially if I'm going to ditch Flurry of Blows in favor of stances and maneuvers. With lower base damage and AC than other warrior types (on average), a martial artist type should at least be accurate.

I do hear you on the subject of screwing around with ToB content this early in the game, though. Not having played any martial adept class yet, I really can't gauge how powerful its whole system is, so I definitely cannot claim that any of the things I've been proposing are balanced.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

In the book is a set of rules for converting a swordsage to a monk substitute. It may in a sidebar, not sure exactly. They give the monk damage and ditch the armor proficiency, and something else I can't remember right now. I really like the monk-ish-but-with-a-weapon-instead flavor of the swordsage.