Tome of Horrors and Repeat Monsters

[Numion]

"And what's best, this book will have no overlap! (well, just a few)" or something like that.

Wouldn't be the first case of misadvertisement in history.

Again I'd like to point out that without knowledge of the deal between Necromancer and WotC it's as likely that NG has made a promise it can't keep (or keeping of which isn't up to them) and that WotC has broken the deal (or gentlemens agreement or whatever they had.)

 

[Kaiyosama]

While I guess this post is just an example, it's a bad example. Orcus was a planned overlap from the beginning. Other overlap as it appears to happen in the FF and UE were possibly planned, but I somehow doubt it.

Personally, I hope the overlap will stay minor.

Okay, Orcus is a bad example as they said it would be overlap (didn't know that). Still, as other people mentioned, on the back of the book... But wasn't the yeti already out in OA before ToH was published?

If the overlap stays minor between companies (which isn't really the case, look as things like the class handbooks) it is fine, you can use both and call the one something else. But that doesn't make it any less anyoing.

 

[BOZ]

I could care less about minor overlapping.

that, personally, is about how i feel about it.

as long as WotC doesn't break the OGC rules, i could care less what they do with those monsters, and i'm sure the same could be said from NG/SSS's point of view.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

Wow - I'm surprised at all the strong opinions here ... pause... ( oh - just some fireworks being let off by the Raider fans in the neighborhood... no incoming nukes.. ) even if fully 20% of the ToH monsters get different versions printed elsewhere in the next several years, the book would still be a value!


What % of my new Core Rulebooks will be DUPLICATED information ? ( not too get tooo far off topic )

What % of the beasts in ToH have you complainers actually used anyway?

No matter what the back of the ToH says, there were SEVERAL threads here before the book came out that detailed the extent of the current overlap, so nitpikers could make an informed decision.

Fair warning to all you who may buy FF: It will contain MANY previously published monsters from the sourcebooks already on your shelf! ( Dragon Mag, Modules, etc... ) Will knowing that cause you not to buy it?

So when is the Penumbra Bestiary coming out? I could use ( or just enjoy reading about ) some new monsters!

 

[kenjib]

*blink*

Wow. You know, I'd never actually read the back of my ToH before. It does say that, doesn't it?

The pre-release press release for the book also said pretty much the same thing. I pointed it out at the time but the folks from Necromancer Games (don't recall exactly who) didn't seem overly concerned.

It's not a big deal to me since I won't buy any of the overlapping WotC products anyway, but I guess I can see why it might bother other people.

 

[johnsemlak]

I have to say I find a few overlapping creatures in a 400+ tome no big deal.

Can someone list the creatures that actually overlap? It sounds like it's 10 or so. If that's so, it's about 2%. Again, no big deal.

 

[Alzrius]

I'd just like to mention that I don't see anything wrong with there being such a miniscule overlap of printed monsters. We were told ahead of time, and inside the book, that a couple of the monsters would be printed in other places as well. Admittedly, the back of the book is misleading, but whoever writes whats in the book and whats on the back cover are not the same person, so somewhere a miscommunication occured. It happens.

The thing I think is significant is, the "overlap" as its being stated here, is when there are two different stat blocks from Necromancer Games and WotC for the same monster. If the Juju Zombie in the ToH turns out to be different than the one we're going to see in Unapproachable East, that's overlap. If WotC decides to use the ToH Juju Zombie in Unapproachable East, meaning that they would have to cite it as OGC (which they are perfectly entitled to do, and have done before), then it's not "overlap" because its the same creature.

We knew, even if whoever printed the back of the book didn't, we knew there would be minor cases of the two companies having differing stats for the same monster. Fair enough, stuff happens. But at this point we don't know if WotC is going to increase the "overlap" or if they're going to use the "duplicate" monsters as their OGC ToH versions. Let's see what develops before we start throwing stones and forecasting doom.

 

[Adlon]

We discussed this overlap briefly with Clark, on Mortality Radio # 18, recorded Oct 11th, 2002.

As has been posted, overlap was not intended with EXISTING products.

 

[Darius101]

Overlap?
I think your all making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Look closley at the creatures you saying are overlapped.
As was pointed out in this thread many of those 'overlapped' creatures are different than the WOTC creatures (from the TOH).
Credit was given for sources and people.
To further clarify what you mean by overlap please tell what you mean exactly. Is it just names you don't like overlapping or are entire stat blocks the same? If it is stat blocks that are the same then I have a problem with that (I haven't noticed this in the books). You also have to figure out what was out at the time the book was written to determine what was claimed in the TOH. Not what was out when it was published...but that could be an entire thread in and of itself.

The good thing is that you have all those creatures in one place and will not need to dig through a ton of material or in the back of some adventure ( I still call them Modules) making finding it easier for you as a DM.
They are OGL so that means that in the future these creatures will be and should be used in gaming material. This would not be overlap. It would be using the book and creatures as was intended.
Nova just had an entire program on Copywrite laws and intellectual property. Very informative. Relevent to many parts of this thread.

Sorry couldn't help it I had to post....
Darius

 

[Gez]

Overlapping monsters (probably not exhaustive, as I type that from memory, and I'll not list unique monsters, namely fiendlords like Orcus, Geryon, Juiblex, and co.):

Blood Hawk (May be in Fiend Folio)
Dark Creeper/Dark Stalker/Skulk: a "dark skulker" is mentionned for the Fiend Folio, and it can as well be something new as just a mistake from the part of the "In the Work" articles and relate to one of these three critters.
Demonic Knight ((sort-of) Death Knight from the Monster Manual 2)
False Spider, Solifugid & Pedipalp (City of the Spider Queen Web Enhancement)
Giant, Forest ((sort-of) Giant, Wood from Monster Manual 2)
Giant, Sand ((sort-of) Giant, Sun from Monster Manual 2)
Groaning Spirit ((sort-of) Banshee from Monster Manual 2)
Lurker Above (City of the Spider Queen Web Enhancement)
Shadow Demon (Book of Vile Darkness)
Taer (Unapproachable East)
Troll, Ice (Unapproachable East)
Juju Zombie (Unapproachable East)
Yellow Musk Creeper (May be in Fiend Folio)
Yeti (Oriental Adventures)