D&D 5E Too Few Player Options During Combat?

[cbwjm]

Every time I see a post about options it reminds me that I haven't introduced my barbarian rage bonuses and fighting style manoeuvres into the game yet. I think it was partly due to covid stopping the game for a bit and then me forgetting about it when we were able to play again

 

[robus]

Develop a social agreement at your table where the players trust the DM to adjudicate different actions on the fly.

Isn’t this basically the first thing established in a D&D game? I’m really losing the plot here obviously!

 

[dave2008]

1.) I personally don't use, and have never used, any 3PP because I find their quality, in general, falls well below WotC
2.) If I'm making up rules on the spot, then the game has become too narrative for my players and the question immediately becomes why have any rules at all.

The DMG does have a quite a few optional rules for both additional actions in combat (and 3PP have expanded this) and guidance and tables for improvising actions. So if you want to do called shots, their is guidance in the DMG.

However, I would also say your wrong about 3PP products. Many of them are as good or even better than WotC products, or at least more innovative. WotC wants a simple game with DM rulings. If you want more than that, you need to look outside WotC. If you're not willing to do either of those (rulings or homebew/3PP), well, that is on you.

 

[dave2008]

It was just an example off the top of my head, not the specific problem in question, so your comment isn't really on topic.

I think the implicit answer coming from the forum right now is that there isn't a core solution to my problem and I need to pray that 6th edition has more complex rules.

That is your conclusion from 4 respondents. I think you are perhaps predetermined to see that answer. The DMG provides several options of additional in combat rules / actions and also provide guidance for improvised actions, like your called shot example. Maybe if your more clear on what your looking for, we can provide more concrete examples.

 

[dave2008]

@Filthy Lucre , what additional actions would like to see? Not including class specific actions, the general actions available on your turn are below. That is a lot of options. What else are you looking for?

EDIT: Also, Feats give you a lot more combat options. The Martial Adept feat alone can give any character access to two maneuvers.

Movement:
Move up to your speed
Get up from prone
flank (optional flanking rule in DMG)

Bonus Action:
Cast a spell
Make an attack with an off-hand weapon
Use a class feature

Action:
Attack (class specific but many options here)
Cast a spell (class specific, but many options here)
Cleave through creatures (optional rule in DMG)
Dodge
Dash
Disengage
Disarm (optional rule in DMG)
Dodge
Escape
Grapple (an Attack action)
Help
Hide
Improvised Actions:

• Ability Checks (PHB)
• Advantage and Disadvantage (DMG)
• Damage severity by level (DMG)
• Improvising damage (DMG)
• Object Armor Class (DMG)
• Object Hit Points (DMG)
• Targets in areas of effect (DMG)
• Typical Difficulty Classes (PHB & DMG)
• Mob attacks (DMG)
• Using Ability Scores (DMG)

Make an Ability / Skill Check
Mark (optional rule in DMG)
Overrun (optional rule in DMG)
Ready (an Action)
Search
Shove a creature
Shove Aside (optional rule in DMG)
Tumble (optional rule in DMG)
Use a class feature
Use an object

Additional Optional Rules to review (DMG):
Facing
Flanking
Lingering injuries
Massive Damage
Morale

Additionally, advice on adjudicating actions:
Some advice for Cinematic combat stunts on D&D Beyond
Advice on Improvised Actions from Sly Flourish

 

[Rabulias]

Action:
…
Dodge
Dash
Disengage
Disarm (optional rule in DMG)
Dodge

"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a sword!"

 

[dave2008]

I think most players are reasonable as Iserith said, though it can take away from the experience if the players never 'really' know what they can do or how it works, its hard to make tactical decisions in a completely narrative way. For me it was always my own energy that it was taxing, of trying to do whatever well, absent rules guidance.

Sure, but the DMG does provide rules guidance. It may not be specific as you like, but there is definitely guidance.

Improvised Actions:

• Ability Checks (PHB)
• Advantage and Disadvantage (DMG)
• Damage severity by level (DMG)
• Improvising damage (DMG)
• Object Armor Class (DMG)
• Object Hit Points (DMG)
• Targets in areas of effect (DMG)
• Typical Difficulty Classes (PHB & DMG)
• Mob attacks (DMG)
• Using Ability Scores (DMG)

 

[dave2008]

I would go with the Maneuvers for Everyone! idea.
Maybe with a few ''flavor'' restriction so that the fighter gain access to all of them, but barbarian and rogue gain the ones that makes sense (feinting, riposte, precision, etc for the rogue, cleaving, frightening, pushing, etc for the barbarian).

Half-casters can have a slower progression but with a few special maneuvers:

Paladin - Smite uses Sup. Die instead of spell slot, dealing the Sup. Die radiant damage, and double that against undeads (and fiend?), with a crit range of 19-20 on that attack.

Ranger - Foe-Bane maneuver, deal 2x Sup. Die against Favored Enemies, with a crit range of 19-20 and the creature cant hide from you until the end of your next turn.

Martial bards can have an even slower progression, but the damage die can be thunder damage.

You could also limit them to a d6 unless the take a feat. Also, doesn't Tasha's have something like this with their variant feats (or am I miss remembering).

Also, if you give maneuvers to everyone, you could just give fighters some additional to balance (personally I think the should be better fighters so perhaps a bonus to hit or damage or both. Maybe the can go up to a d20 with their manuevers or they can use more than one per turn (I like that).

 

[dave2008]

@Filthy Lucre:
Following up what @vincegetorix said in post #87, giving all characters some access to maneuvers is an method to add a lot more options. An easy way to do this is give everyone the martial adept feat.

Or you could just give everyone access to all battlemaster maneuvers (don't forget new ones in TCoE). If you do that I would suggest:

1. Limit non-fighters to a d6 and one superiority die like the Martial Adept feat
2. If the take the Martial Adept Feat they upgrade to a d8 and two superiority dice
3. Allow fighters to start with a d8 and two dice (and progress up from there) or use two maneuvers per turn (or both)

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

You could also limit them to a d6 unless the take a feat. Also, doesn't Tasha's have something like this with their variant feats (or am I miss remembering).

Also, if you give maneuvers to everyone, you could just give fighters some additional to balance (personally I think the should be better fighters so perhaps a bonus to hit or damage or both. Maybe the can go up to a d20 with their manuevers or they can use more than one per turn (I like that).

I'd have to come with a different progression for full martial, half-martial and 1/3 martials.

Full martial would be 4 to 6 uses per SR, d6s up to d10 (d12 for fighters), 2 maneuvers known up to 4 (3 up to 7 known for fighters).

Half-martial would be 2 uses per SR up to 3, d6s up to d8s, 2 maneuvers known up to 3 + their unique one for free.

1/3 martial would 2 uses per SR, d6s, 2 maneuvers known only.