Too young to play D&D 4e

[Ariosto]

I think the "10 and up" label on the old TSR D&D and AD&D sets was probably a good rule of thumb -- but individuals are individual.

The 4e game by default puts a greater game-mechanical burden on character players. To the target audience, that is of course less a "burden" than part of the fun. It might be more like dull work to an eight year old, though, if one were to expect the same management of rules and number-crunching.

I don't think it has to be too violent. A greater concern to me, really, is that a fight scene takes so long to get through if you do it precisely by the book. That certainly blunts any potential impact of shock action, but perhaps at the risk of boredom.

Kids that age tend not, I think, to get as focused as older gamer types on combat scenarios -- or "heroic fantasy" trappings -- as ends in themselves. Adventure is the thing, and doing things in the real world really gets their attention. Some humorous or other reassurance that violence is not real (a la Saturday morning cartoons) might be appreciated more than going the opposite, gory way -- but scary threats that are somehow avoided or overcome can also be effective.

A lot of things might be scarier than threats to a sense of mortality that is perhaps not yet fully developed. Basically, I think you'll probably get more mileage out of exploring the context that makes a fight significant than out of half an hour of slow-mo blow-by-blow.

Your Mileage May Vary! Again, individuals are individual.

 

[Garmorn]

I have been thinking and reading the previous post.

Here is another suggestion. Find a simple system, like a updated version of 1 or 2 ed D&D or Fantasy Trip. Simple rules that don't have to many options are just find for a young child. Some thing that could be migrated to a more complex system in a few years would work fine.

 

[Storminator]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone (and apology for all the spelling mistakes in my original msg -- would you believe I'm an English teacher?)

I'm feeling more confident about this now. I should also add that my 3rd grader is obsessively familiar with the (extended) LOTR movies, and thus, the general storylines/characters in D&D. He's also played several long games of Star Wars miniatures and so has an introduction of sorts to RPG's.

I was considering running a Dungeon Delve adventure first for practice. I was then probably going to run a pre-made adventure module because I think the structured storyline might be a little tighter/easier to follow. I would adjust it down in terms of violence, difficulty, and demons/ghosts/deathcults/etc. I would probably also add more non-combat challenges. I should say that I've NEVER used an andventure module as a player or DM, so it'll be new to me.

If I go with an adventure module, is there one that you think might be best suited for children?

Thanks everyone!

Honestly, if you've never run a module before, there's no reason to start now. Most of your old adventure ideas will be brand new and shiny to these players, and even simple twists will likely be complete surprises.

PS

 

[kenmarable]

I'm DMing for my kids a while now. The two oldest were 7 and 9 when I started and had no problems at all. It's been almost a year since I started, but we play infrequently due to girl scouts and other after school activities. My youngest is 6 and it was a bit iffy at first for her, but there was of course no way not to include her! Also, now that she's really picking up in reading skills, that has helped immensely. Otherwise, I just had to tell her what to roll and why.

As for 4e, I think it's actually great for kids. We had tried 3.5, but between them being younger and the classes working differently, they never really got into it. With 4e, it's very clear with "you can use the greens as much as you like, reds once in a fight, and blacks once a day". Before I had to make custom cards directions like "use and keep" or "use and give to Papa".

As others have said with violence, it's only as violent as you make it. I regularly describe the monsters as being knocked out, running away, or promising never to hurt anyone again. Basically 0hp is "out of the fight". Although I've also lowered monster hp to make the fights faster since their attention span can vary some nights.

I originally planned on just doing some various dungeon crawling with the general theme of "Dungeon Race" where they were racing against other teams to make it through various dungeons. They liked that at first, but then when they saw some of my other adventure modules, they started asking about those. So I just listed several options and let them choose what they liked. The only real modification I have had to do is to keep the non-combat sections detailed and open-ended. For example, my oldest is a ranger with a animal companion. Finding and befriending the animal companion interested her far more than any battle when we first started. So, go with what interests them, and be flexible. But otherwise, as long as you aren't trying a full on mystery adventure (not that there are many), most any should work.

Honestly, if you've never run a module before, there's no reason to start now. Most of your old adventure ideas will be brand new and shiny to these players, and even simple twists will likely be complete surprises.

PS

Also great advice! Go with what you are comfortable with.


Oh, and lastly, I don't know if you have a DDI subscription, but I found the Character Builder to be IMMENSELY helpful with guiding the kids through character creation and leveling. All in one location it shows you "choose A, B, or C" for each decision. Very handy!

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Do you think it will be too difficult for an advanced 3rd grader?
Do you think it is too violent/adult for an advance 3rd grader?

Not at all. My son played a bit last year as a 2nd-grader and grasped the concept and rules easily.

You control the "violence/adult" factor as DM. You can describe a monster that has been reduced to zero hit points as defeated instead of killed. Their tolerance for violence depends on what other media you allow them to consume. Alot of childrens programming has cartoon violence and as long as your children can differentiate fictional violence from real-world violence they should be OK. It never hurts to point out these differences from time to time (like when my boys sit down to watch WWE with me).

The only issue I had was attention span. My son's attention span for a paper and pencil game isn't quite adequate yet. But he is still highly interested in the game. He brought the subject up again recently.

 

[Raven Crowking]

My daughter handled the basics of 3e at 8, I switched to Basic Fantasy when she was 9 (and it is free!) and RCFG (also free!) now that she is 10. Her first 3e adventure is still on EN World somewhere.....it was designed to teach the basic principles.


RC

 

[Garmorn]

I think I need to add something.

One reason my daughter had to wait was because she was the only kid in the group close to her age and she was the oldest by at least 4 years. So when she started it was in my normal group that I and DM ran. It was not changed to fit her in any way.

So when she started at 12 it was in full blown adult game.

 

[Phaezen]

I believe Chatty DM is working on something with WOTC on this specific topic. You can find his writings on gaming with children here

Hope that helps.

 

[Henry]

I may be wrong, but it's not the complexity to worry about, it's keeping interest. I've seen young kids pick up on things other adults were SURE they couldn't understand or grasp (those little minds are like sponges) and the majority of RPGs aren't too complex or grounded in advanced concepts that a young child couldn't grasp. I might not go trying to teach them Starfleet Battles or something, but 4E or Basic D&D, even 3E, is doable, as long as they find something that keeps them interested, and that's where how well you know the child in question comes in.

4E is good, but if you're worried about the complexity, RISUS, Basic Fantasy RPG, Microlite 20, all are great starter solutions.

 

[buddhafrog]

Wow everyone -- so helpful.

"Violence" is quite relative. I will certainly be describing monsters as being killed, but I completely understand why some wouldn't do that for thier kids. I guess I was abstractly worried about him internalizing some of the more intense/scary/'evil' situations. But as you all stated, that is up to the DM. I will decrease the intesity of the monsters often and will avoid the truely "evil" (as opposed to "monsters") opponents.

I think I will be decreasing the monsters and their hit pts. to make the combat quicker.

Non-dungeon scenerios for kids are probably best -- I remember those being my favorites as a kid as well. I will probably focus here but mix in some dungeon challenges. I've talked to my son and he wants to be a ranger (i.e. Aragorn or Legolis) -- and specifically asked to have a power that allowed him to either talk to animals or maybe if he touched them, to see what they have seen. Wonderful!

I will be tweaking the 4e combat rules, but sense I haven't played 4e (or D&D for maybe 20 years almost), I'm not sure what to tweak yet. I'll figure it out -- but am very open for suggestions.

Great advice everyone.