Top Gear vs D&D: Fear

[Andor]

There was just an interesting episode of Top Gear where Jeremy Clarkson plays a racing game and then tries to match his time with the same car on the same track in real life. He couldn't even come close. Not because the game is a poor simulation, but because when actually feeling the G forces and watching the blind corners come up he was unable to take things as close to the edge as he could in a virtual world. In other words, fear.

Fear hasn't really been a part of D&D for 2.5 editions now. But is that a good thing? D&D hasn't been a wargame for a long time, but it's roots lie there, and morale is an enormous thing in war and hence wargames. Should it have a bigger (or indeed any) presence in D&D?

 

[Wycen]

Top Gear rocks!

 

[Toben the Many]

I've played a number of RPGs and wargames which take the fear into account. Simply put, it becomes a drastically different game. Even different from OD&D, in which fear was not necessarily a factor either. After all, you as a player might fear losing your character, but your character doesn't necessarily feel fear.

Games that take fear into account for things like combat, are quite different from D&D. They are not quite as "heroic" and tend to be more "gritty".

A good example of this would be the pinning rules from Dark Heresy or Games Workshop in general. The idea is that someone can spray an area full of bullets and cause everyone in that area to take cover, and stay pinned down, whether they chose to do so or not. Essentially, you have to make a save to come out of pinning.

While I like this rule and it makes it very realistic, it's not very "D&D" to me, which has always been about being able to run up to someone and hit them with your sword.

 

[Kzach]

The biggest problem with morale for PC's is that it crosses an intangible line that separates player choice from mechanics. Nobody wants to be told their character runs from battle, that's the purview of the player, not the character.

 

[Andor]

The biggest problem with morale for PC's is that it crosses an intangible line that separates player choice from mechanics. Nobody wants to be told their character runs from battle, that's the purview of the player, not the character.

True, but that's handleable easily enough by either ignoring morale for PCs as D&D traditionally did, or by using penaltys like 'shaken' to indicate that while the PC may be able to soldier on into the den of rabid dire displacerbeasts he's going to need new pants afterwards.

In the old days the Monster Manual used to have a morale listing for all the beasties which let you know that gnolls were less likely to run away than kobolds. Nowadays everything seems to fight to the death heedless of odds, morale or the fact that the monk just crit'ed with a 'flensing strike'.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

The biggest problem with morale for PC's is that it crosses an intangible line that separates player choice from mechanics. Nobody wants to be told their character runs from battle, that's the purview of the player, not the character.

Taking cover then being pinned could be a player choice though: if you're out in the open and something horrific attacks, you can either choose to stand there and see if you'll survive, or dive for cover and then have to recover morale to get back into action.

 

[delericho]

Fear hasn't really been a part of D&D for 2.5 editions now. But is that a good thing? D&D hasn't been a wargame for a long time, but it's roots lie there, and morale is an enormous thing in war and hence wargames. Should it have a bigger (or indeed any) presence in D&D?

There were fear and horror rules in the 2nd Edition Ravenloft setting, and the 3e sourcebook "Heroes of Horror" (and perhaps "Unearthed Arcana") included rules for fear. It's probably reasonably easy to whip up some rules for fear in 4e - in a scary situation, each character suffers a +X vs Will attack or be unable to act/run away/whatever.

As others have mentioned, the use of such rules changes the game. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is something you should probably consider.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think Jeremy just kicked in an open door.

I don't want to be slashed by Orcs or fried by Dragons in real life, that is why I play the game.

Just as I prefer spinning off a motorway at 190 kph in a game over doing so in real life. (Yes, I've tried both, and I liked the game experience better.)

 

[Thanee]

Fear hasn't really been a part of D&D for 2.5 editions now.

Huh?



As for morale... D&D is about heroes. So no.

Bye
Thanee

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

I think a hero who knows no fear is not a hero at all, but let's not bring that one up again.

In our games we've started bringing in "morale" for creatures & NPCs at least. It makes them feel more realistic to us and less like automated 'bots'.

There was a nice article in the old White Dwarf magazine "Monsters have feelings too." Always worth a read if you can find it.