I always use the B/X D&D morale rules for NPCs, whichever iteration of D&D I'm running. NPC adventurer groups may have similar morale to PCs, such that they'll generally not flee in panic but may withdraw if outclassed. Goblins and such will often break and run if things seem to be going against them. Certainly when it's down to 1 or 2 hobgoblins vs the PCs, they'll normally try to flee.
Top Gear vs D&D: Fear
- Thread starter Andor
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Jack7
First Post
A man with no fear is not fearless, he's just crazy. There's something wrong with him, and his life will be short. A hero with no real fear fears no right, as well as no wrong. He's dangerous, and sooner or later uncontrollable and twisted.
We always use fear in our games, and have for a long time. I'm not for mechanizing it up necessarily. As a general principle. And in most situations. But fear can both build gradually, as well as surprise and shock. You can also build up a slow stockpile of it over time, as well as overcome it gradually with practice, training, and effort. (Believe me, you get in dangerous situations over and over again you can still be afraid, but it doesn't effect you in the same way. Eventually, in some situations at least, fear changes from enemy to ally. Form the guy who is gonna ambush ya, to the guy who is there to keep you from getting ambushed.)
Therefore I also think it should be remembered that fear can be a fantastically good motivator, as well as an inhibitor.
Fear of very bad things happening to people you intend to protect can definitely motivate you in ways few other things can. What's bad at first gander, can also fire up the goose. Trash to treasure, and all that.
Thanael
Explorer
Also in the 3rd edition version of Ravenloft...
Hussar
Legend
I like how Savage Worlds Does it. You have to make a Guts check whenever something horrific pops up. Failure includes a number of penalties based on how badly you failed. I would LOVE to see this sort of mechanic in D&D.
While I realize it sucks to lose control of your character, it would still be something I'd love to see added to the game. Would speed up combats incredibly if the baddies ran away most of the time.
While I realize it sucks to lose control of your character, it would still be something I'd love to see added to the game. Would speed up combats incredibly if the baddies ran away most of the time.
While I don't like morale for PC's, I'd like a return to monster morale too.
There is already a morale check to surrender when the PC's make an intimidate check while their opponent is bloodied, but I'd like a few more things as well.
A mechanic for monsters to break (but not necessarily surrender) when their (Leader) dies would be good, or if they lose 50%-75% of their number. Scaled of course, based on the tactics of the monster. Perhaps skirmishers are more likely to break than soldiers, and brutes will always fight to the death.
It might also be one of the solutions for "grindy" combat. When the battle is all but over don't have the monsters stick it out, but break and run to a reinforced position.
Of course, this screws with encounter level and giving out XP.
There is already a morale check to surrender when the PC's make an intimidate check while their opponent is bloodied, but I'd like a few more things as well.
A mechanic for monsters to break (but not necessarily surrender) when their (Leader) dies would be good, or if they lose 50%-75% of their number. Scaled of course, based on the tactics of the monster. Perhaps skirmishers are more likely to break than soldiers, and brutes will always fight to the death.
It might also be one of the solutions for "grindy" combat. When the battle is all but over don't have the monsters stick it out, but break and run to a reinforced position.
Of course, this screws with encounter level and giving out XP.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Dragons still have fear auras.
Other monsters have various fear attacks as well.
The 3e fear effects were pretty nice in that they were an escalating scale of "uh-oh" to "GOODNESSGRACIOUSIHAVEMESSEDMYSELF!" Mirrored that "rising tension" really well.
Monster "morale" is modeled with a Will save/defense at the moment. PC's have some fear effects, too.
Or with DM fiat. 0 hp doesn't HAVE to mean slain -- it could just mean unconscious, or fleeing, or whatever. 0 hp = no longer a threat, at any rate.
Other monsters have various fear attacks as well.
The 3e fear effects were pretty nice in that they were an escalating scale of "uh-oh" to "GOODNESSGRACIOUSIHAVEMESSEDMYSELF!" Mirrored that "rising tension" really well.
Monster "morale" is modeled with a Will save/defense at the moment. PC's have some fear effects, too.
Or with DM fiat. 0 hp doesn't HAVE to mean slain -- it could just mean unconscious, or fleeing, or whatever. 0 hp = no longer a threat, at any rate.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
I prefer fear effects work more similar to how marks (and many controller effects) in 4E work. You take a small penalty and if you don't do the "right" thing, you get punished. But you can still do that thing.
Something like suppressive fire might work like this:
- Fall Prone and do not attack. Nothing happens.
- Stay upright or attack. You take damage. Maybe not even "real" damage but just "morale" damage.
Your choices are not restricted, but the consequences of your choices have changed, making a choice that looks like a fearful reaction seem more benefitial than it normally would.
Something like suppressive fire might work like this:
- Fall Prone and do not attack. Nothing happens.
- Stay upright or attack. You take damage. Maybe not even "real" damage but just "morale" damage.
Your choices are not restricted, but the consequences of your choices have changed, making a choice that looks like a fearful reaction seem more benefitial than it normally would.
More physics than fear in the Top Gear race, plus a touch or mortality. D&D has never been a game of mortality, very few games are, some do a good job with it but it is still just a game. To bring in a touch of mortality, you have to have a good chance of death in the game, where the player knows he could die with each and every combat or action.
As far as fear, I have seen football players get freaked from seeing a cow or hog up close for the first time. They just don't expect the size. To a degree, that is how fear should work, you are out of a comfort zone and then faced with the unexpected. Rules wise, Savage World Gut Check is good, WFRP fear and terror is much the same. The GM just has to decide when a character is out of their comfort zone and then role for a reaction.
As far as fear, I have seen football players get freaked from seeing a cow or hog up close for the first time. They just don't expect the size. To a degree, that is how fear should work, you are out of a comfort zone and then faced with the unexpected. Rules wise, Savage World Gut Check is good, WFRP fear and terror is much the same. The GM just has to decide when a character is out of their comfort zone and then role for a reaction.
nerfherder
Adventurer
Well, Jeremy Clarkson is a commoner / villager / NPC class. The equivalent of a D&D PC would be a racing driver, who would be able to overcome his fear to perform as well in real life as on a video game, despite the risk.
No disrespect to Mr Clarkson - being able to achieve a sub-10 minute 'Ring time is not to be sniffed at. I know from personal experience the fear that grips you before tackling a lap of a race track that has claimed so many lives, compared to playing it on an X-box.
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