Top Ten Reasons AD&D Is Fun

[Reynard]

One of my top-ten things about 1e is the slowdown in advancement that occurs when ExP-for-g.p. gets dropped.

In other words, I agree with 9 out of 10 on your list.

Lanefan

Finding the balance can be tough, though. If you completely throw out XP for gp's and just go with monster XP, the party has to kill something on the order of 500 orcs just for everyone to reach second level, which motivates players to hunt down and kill everything they come across (which can be just as problematic as having them look everything they come across).

Plus, greed is fun to punish! If there's XP in gold, that giant ruby eye in the statue becomes a lot more tempting, and the traps and curses that protect it become a lot more fun to set up.

 

[S'mon]

Pretty much my conclusion as well (though I did run it for a brief time). A few minor tweaks to O/B/X/A D&D and I have something quite similar. Ultimately I think C&C sits too squarely on the fence-and I think thats a result of the "design by a committee" process. I know some C&C fans wil beg to differ (Hi Treebore! ), but that's the way *I* feel.

I fairly well agree with your initial post-though some of Gary''s AD&D subsystems were ridiculous- I much prefer the cleaner/tighter O/B/X and clones.

With C&C I like not having to refer to attack matrices or saving throw tables, also Thief % skill charts and various class abilities, STR open doors/bend bars chances, etc. I find the unified mechanic (d20+mods vs target number) works well in play. YMMV.

 

[crash_beedo]

Good list!

I would add one more, which is nostalgia - when we play 1E, it's like being a kid in middle school or high school all over again, getting out of school early and starting up our AD&D over at a friend's house.

We are with 4E now, but the only other edition I would consider running would be 1E; thanks for the list of Reynard!

 

[jaerdaph]

Why? I didn't say 1E was better than [insert your favorite edition here]. Nor did I say "1E roxxorzz!!!" with no qualification for the statement.

If one were to view the post in the least conspiratorial light, one might surmise I am "spoiling for a conversation."

I took it to mean that you found AD&D even more fun NOW than the first time around.

 

[Remathilis]

Hmmm....

Didn't play first edition (which you are clearly referencing, even though 2e is ALSO AD&D) so I will intro my "Top Ten Reason 2nd edition is more-better"

1.) The Settings. Oh Gawd, the settings. In NO other edition of D&D could you chose between Greyhawk, Realms, Dragonlance, Mystara, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, Birthright, Spelljammer, a dozen historical settings, and a couple of micro-settings (Jakandor, etc).

2.) Organized for your use. Need to find the encumbrance rules? Just need to divide up XP? No need to read a full page diatribe on what encumbrance means to medieval peasants (complete with World of Greyhawk plug), they are easy to find.

3.) Non-Weapon Proficiencies: Granted, not the best skill system ever created, but much better than "let your DM decide if you can swim".

4.) Less nonsensical rule-contradictions. Ok, So Strength adds to my hit and damage UNLESS I'm a monk, which requires me to have 15 strength YET I get no bonus for it? Ok. I'll be a half-elven bard. Half-elves can be bards ya know, despite the fact they can't dual-class to BECOME a bard. Oh, and Why do I need to take 10+ levels of other classes to BE a bard? Oh, and why aren't GIANTS considered GIANT-CLASS monsters? And why does the cavalier get to bump HIS ability scores by level?

5.) The Best Monster Manual D&D has ever put out. Period.

6.) More supplements than you'll ever need. Concerned about the lack of new 1e/3e supplements? Fear not, TSR put out so many from 1989-2000, people STILL haven't used them all. Still dying? Ok, OSRIC/1e is easily compatible with 2e as well.

7.) Genre support. Gritty historical. Check. Epic fantasy? Check. Sword-n-sorcery? Check.

8.) Some of the best D&D video games (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale) utilize 2e rules.

9.) AD&D Core Rules 2.0 + Expansion. All the features of DDi Char-gen, plus custom content, mapping, and 20 books in HTML.

10.) Specialty Priest and Spheres: Never has customizing priests to fit their god's ethos been done so well.

 

[Reynard]

1.) The Settings.

5.) The Best Monster Manual D&D has ever put out. Period.

7.) Genre support. Gritty historical. Check. Epic fantasy? Check. Sword-n-sorcery? Check.

10.) Specialty Priest and Spheres: Never has customizing priests to fit their god's ethos been done so well.

These things are in fact made of awesome, and every one easily adaptable to 1E.

 

[Dausuul]

Close.

"More fun" =/= "better"

These are games. The whole and entire purpose is to have fun. How, then, can there be any difference between "more fun" and "better?"

 

[Xyxox]

Hmmm....

Didn't play first edition (which you are clearly referencing, even though 2e is ALSO AD&D) so I will intro my "Top Ten Reason 2nd edition is more-better"

1.) The Settings. Oh Gawd, the settings. In NO other edition of D&D could you chose between Greyhawk, Realms, Dragonlance, Mystara, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, Birthright, Spelljammer, a dozen historical settings, and a couple of micro-settings (Jakandor, etc).

2.) Organized for your use. Need to find the encumbrance rules? Just need to divide up XP? No need to read a full page diatribe on what encumbrance means to medieval peasants (complete with World of Greyhawk plug), they are easy to find.

3.) Non-Weapon Proficiencies: Granted, not the best skill system ever created, but much better than "let your DM decide if you can swim".

4.) Less nonsensical rule-contradictions. Ok, So Strength adds to my hit and damage UNLESS I'm a monk, which requires me to have 15 strength YET I get no bonus for it? Ok. I'll be a half-elven bard. Half-elves can be bards ya know, despite the fact they can't dual-class to BECOME a bard. Oh, and Why do I need to take 10+ levels of other classes to BE a bard? Oh, and why aren't GIANTS considered GIANT-CLASS monsters? And why does the cavalier get to bump HIS ability scores by level?

5.) The Best Monster Manual D&D has ever put out. Period.

6.) More supplements than you'll ever need. Concerned about the lack of new 1e/3e supplements? Fear not, TSR put out so many from 1989-2000, people STILL haven't used them all. Still dying? Ok, OSRIC/1e is easily compatible with 2e as well.

7.) Genre support. Gritty historical. Check. Epic fantasy? Check. Sword-n-sorcery? Check.

8.) Some of the best D&D video games (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale) utilize 2e rules.

9.) AD&D Core Rules 2.0 + Expansion. All the features of DDi Char-gen, plus custom content, mapping, and 20 books in HTML.

10.) Specialty Priest and Spheres: Never has customizing priests to fit their god's ethos been done so well.

I was one of those geeks constantly spending money on the releases put out. I've got a nearly complete run of the 2E materials all in boxes. I used maybe 35% during the time 2E was actively being published.

This was why I never saw a reason to switch to 3.xE and still see little reason to switch to 4E. Subsequent editions are not as attractive when I have more material for 2E than I could possibly use in two lifetimes.

These are games. The whole and entire purpose is to have fun. How, then, can there be any difference between "more fun" and "better?"

The term "more fun" implies "for me" due to the subjective nature of "fun". The term "better" would have to be qualified with "for me" as there is no implied meaning.

 

[Fifth Element]

These are games. The whole and entire purpose is to have fun. How, then, can there be any difference between "more fun" and "better?"

Indeed.

Also, all editions of D&D are awesome!

 

[TarionzCousin]

Hackmaster = AD&D + Charts & Humor

Reynard, have you played Hackmaster? It's basically 1E plus huge charts and some funny stuff. Kenzer got the license from WotC.

Plus, it has all kinds of crazy stuff from the Knights of the Dinner Table comics.