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Torches

wedgeski

Adventurer
"Born Survivor" ("Man vs. Wild" in the US I think) often shows Bear Grylls navigating underground caves with a stick and a bit of rag burning with some kind of fuel he's conjured up out of the local flora. It rarely burns for long, and sheds hardly any light, but it *is* usually adequate for the purpose of finding his way.
 

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Celebrim

Legend
how much is the castle's "light" bill)?

Enormous. I've never seen numbers for actual castles probably because they simply couldn't afford to light them at all, but for later era manor homes and mansions I've seen estimates that put the light bill at equivalent to 100's of thousands of dollars. Only the very wealthy could afford candles used for anything but emergency purposes, and even for the wealthy lighting up the home to host a party could be an enormous expense. In a few hours, a large home could burn dozens of pounds of candles and gallons of oil at a cost that would be equivalent to thousands of dollars. Add to that the very real risk of a destructive fire from every light source and before the modern era you just have dark and lots of it.
 

Huw

First Post
There's a scene in The Mummy Returns featuring several dozen flaming torches. In the commentary, they were talking about the constant shooting problems due to a torch going out and a stagehand needing to replace it, usually every 5 minutes.

So yes, if a dungeon is lit by burning torches, you would have an acolyte, slave or member of the guild of torches on constant duty just keeping the things lit, even with the longer-lasting sources mentioned in the posts above. Could make for an interesting wandering encounter.
 

jonesy

A Wicked Kendragon
Could make for an interesting wandering encounter.
cynthia.jpg


"Numbers 6, 33, and 118 need changing. Oh, yes."
 

Jimlock

Adventurer
Not very related to the OP, but I'll just throw this in cause it's a cool idea/image for any adventuring party during camp :)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfRovJ1KcCg&feature=related]Swedish Fire Torch - YouTube[/ame]
 


Vascant

Wanderer of the Underdark
It's "magic"!

Isn't that the explanation for anything that doesn't seem quite right?

Sorry not for me, I am completely against hand waving to solve problems. If I as a DM am going to introduce something in my game that seems a mystery then I need to go through the steps that were needed to create it. Sometimes it means creating spells or magic items that will never see the light of day or my players will never have access too but I do feel it gives me a first grasp when trying to explain the mystery and challenging my players. I have had my players set off on crazy adventures trying to uncover how somethings were done.

I do believe each to their own though and know a lot of DM's that do it and it works for them.
 

Squire James

First Post
Several more-complex explanations that essentially mean "it's magic" come to mind:

- The Plane of Fire is currently far away from the material plane, so stuff just doesn't burn as fast as it ought to.

- The Plane of Fire is currently very close to the material plane, so stuff burns brightly and for a very long time!

- One of the mooks is an ancient low-level cleric who only knows Continual Light... and is so old she's using 1st edition rules!

- Drow wizards developed bio-luminescent slimes that look like they're on fire when they're on the end of a stick (so they can read their spellbooks, of course). Humans found a few samples and started making them.

- The original master of the castle was some mythical bloke that had access to so many Wishes that he once said, "I wish all torches within the castle walls will burn indefinitely without fuel unless deliberately extinguished!" He may have even said "in the world" rather than "within the castle walls".

I suppose that's enough for now.
 

In movies and novels, which I know are not the most reliable of sources, we surely see torches lineing the corridors of ancient crypts and the stone hallways of massive keeps.
And there you have it. Movies in particular are just hopelessly unreliable examples of reality. Reality is that a 1 hour torch is pretty dang good. Reality also is that castles were NOT lit with torches down every long hallway and around the walls of every room. If you needed light you did what you needed to do during the day whene there WAS light. At night if you needed light you used a fire, brazier, torch or whatever but you used them in your immediate vicinity. You didn't light up the castle like the proverbial Christmas tree on the odd chance that someone might use a particular hallway or room. You lit the room you OCCUPIED at that moment. If you had to move somewhere else you did so in the dark or took a candle, lamp or whatever with you to dimly light your way.

How is it that those two aspects of the torch do not make sense?
Movies and books aren't meant to make particular sense. They're meant to evoke images and moods. Movies especially (as has been noted) have the further limitation that they need light. LOTS of light. WAY more light than normal lighting can possibly provide. In a movie a torchlit hallway is visually interesting. An UNLIT hallway with a character walking along carrying a candle provides a completely different center of interest and conveyence of mood.

In books... well it's not that much different than movies. A character moving in an unlit, dark room has to have the scene described much differently than a character who enters a well-lit room where he can see everyone and everything in it clearly. The author isn't worried about justifying HOW or WHY the room is lit - it is simply lit because the character needs it to be lit for the author's purposes.

If you want reality, until the proliferation of gaslight, maybe with whale oil lamps, nighttime and unwindowed indoor locations were different experiences for people the world over than what modern man is used to. It is in some ways incomprehensible to us what life is like when even the home you live in is so dark at night. People may get more of an understanding of it when camping. Without a flashlight or lantern you have to walk by the moonlight or starlight when outdoors. Indoors you have a lantern on or hanging above/nearby your table - and that one light is your campsites sole light source. If you need to go into your tent or off to the campground lavatory then you need to grab your flashlight to light your way. Prior to light sources becoming a convenience fueled/powered by some modern infrastructure it was just a fact of life that the world was so often and so predominantly a dark, shadowy place.

Edit: wanted to add that when you are more familiar with doing so it is quite easy to function at night by moonlight. When your eyes are adjusted to lower light conditions it is surprising what you really CAN see. When you're moving from one pool of bright incandescant light to the next your eyes don't have time or ability to penetrate the shadows created. It is often easier to operate at night by the moon WITHOUT a flashlight than have to rely upon seeing only the what a flashlight can illuminate.

Take a torch into a dark cave and yeah, it's pretty crappy light - but even a little light will reveal a great deal especially in the close confines of the typical real-world cavern. Most real-world caverns aren't like the Vault of the Drow. They're rough, narrow, cramped places where a 1000-watt lamp isn't really going to do you any more good showing you the way than a weak torch.
 
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ACpilot

First Post
I don't think its unreasonable for a wealthy lord to have in his service servants to maintain lamps and torches all night in certain parts of a keep or whatnot.

Lamplighters could serve a dual purpose of maintaining lamps and torches AND act as patrolling watchmen as they went about their rounds - or they could just be like candle-men and act separate from guards.

I know that I've read fantasy novels which have had scenes with watchmen/lamplighters like this but I can't think of any off the top.

Oh, and castle owners would not light torches just for show or for vanity but because it repels thieves - I had my garage and car broken into twice and the Cops said straight up that thieves are deterred far more due to light and dogs than any kind of high-tech alarm system.
 

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