D&D 5E Tossing an opponent

[Not a Hobbit]

Dear ENWorlders:

So my barbarian has taken to this concept of picking up opponents (in this case skeletons) and throwing them at other opponents in an effort to break both of them. I used a grapple check for him to pick up the skeleton to be thrown, but was at a loss to figure out how to rule him using the skeleton as a weapon. I finally just made him do straight strength checks, with the "thrown at" skeleton making an acrobatics check, and then let him roll 1d4-1d10 + strength depending on the results.

Nobody seemed to mind the haphazardness of the solution, because everybody was really enjoying him smashing things*, but I can't help think that there is a better solution. Please help me find it, since it seems that the barbarian will continue using this method against weaker opponents.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help.

--Scott


*Coupled with this was a unique circumstance wherein the Cleric "turned undead", forcing the skeletons to run as far away as possible, while the Crown Paladin issued a "Champion Challenge", requiring the skeletons to remain within 30' of the paladin. Much hilarity ensued as the skeletons ran in circles 30' away from the pair, unable to come any closer, while also unable to run any farther away. Made easy pickings for the Barbarian.

 

[Satyrn]

I try to be as simple as possible in my rulings.

I'd do a grapple check to grab Skeleton1.

Then throwing the Skeleton1 against any surface deals 1d6+Str (no check required, as the grapple check resolved the chance of success - an attack only requires one roll, so this does, too)

Now, since that surface in this case is Skeleton2, I'd have the barbarian make an attack roll to hit it, with success meaning Skeleton2 takes the same damage as Skeleton1 (or roll damage separately if that's your preference or your player's). Regardless of the result of this attack, Skeleton1 does take damage.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I basically agree with Satyrn. Grab attack to grapple/pick up, then treat skeleton 1 as an improvised weapon against skeleton 2, with both taking damage on a hit and only s1 taking damage on a miss.

Sure, it should probably, technically be harder than that, with skeleton 1 thrashing around and trying to hit the barbarian, but 5E and I both almost always suggest erring on the side of speed, simplicity, and cinematics.

 

[jaelis]

In fact the rules specifically talk about using a dead goblin as an improvised weapon. Seems close enough

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I try to be as simple as possible in my rulings.

I'd do a grapple check to grab Skeleton1.

Then throwing the Skeleton1 against any surface deals 1d6+Str (no check required, as the grapple check resolved the chance of success - an attack only requires one roll, so this does, too)

Now, since that surface in this case is Skeleton2, I'd have the barbarian make an attack roll to hit it, with success meaning Skeleton2 takes the same damage as Skeleton1 (or roll damage separately if that's your preference or your player's). Regardless of the result of this attack, Skeleton1 does take damage.

I'd do this, except on a miss Skeleton1 doesn't take damage either. The barbarian is seeking a greater reward of dealing damage twice. That merits greater risk.

 

[Satyrn]

I'd do this, except on a miss Skeleton1 doesn't take damage either. The barbarian is seeking a greater reward of dealing damage twice. That merits greater risk.

Makes sense to me.

But I also notice that I forgot to mention I was rather figuring on the grapple/throw using one attack and grapple/throw at a second target as using 2 attacks. So, the cost being in action economy rather than in the risk. The barbarian would need Extra Attack to pull this off in one round.

(How do I justify making "grapple/throw at a wall" one attack while "grapple/throw at a second target" takes two? Simple, it takes more effort to line up a throw at a moving target.)

 

[Quickleaf]

Dear ENWorlders:

So my barbarian has taken to this concept of picking up opponents (in this case skeletons) and throwing them at other opponents in an effort to break both of them. I used a grapple check for him to pick up the skeleton to be thrown, but was at a loss to figure out how to rule him using the skeleton as a weapon. I finally just made him do straight strength checks, with the "thrown at" skeleton making an acrobatics check, and then let him roll 1d4-1d10 + strength depending on the results.

Nobody seemed to mind the haphazardness of the solution, because everybody was really enjoying him smashing things*, but I can't help think that there is a better solution. Please help me find it, since it seems that the barbarian will continue using this method against weaker opponents.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help.

The Skeleton Jam. Make a grab against a skeleton as normal; i.e. grab as action make opposed Str (Ath) vs. Dex (Acr) or Str (Ath). On a success, the skeleton is grappled. As long as it is grappled, it can be used as an improvised weapon (i.e. you don't add your proficiency bonus to attack) by a suitably savage barbarian.
When you hit a creature with the skeleton it deals club-like damage (1d6+STR bludgeoning) both to the target and to the grappled skeleton.
If the player does this more than once and makes a goodbad pun "the leg bone is connected to the HEAD bone!" consider letting them treat the attack as non-improvised (i.e. let them add their prof. bonus).

 

[Satyrn]

Oh, and the reduced damage per attack is a cost, too, because the barbarian is probably doing more than 1d6 with his weapon.

 

[Not a Hobbit]

Makes sense to me.

But I also notice that I forgot to mention I was rather figuring on the grapple/throw using one attack and grapple/throw at a second target as using 2 attacks. So, the cost being in action economy rather than in the risk. The barbarian would need Extra Attack to pull this off in one round.

(How do I justify making "grapple/throw at a wall" one attack while "grapple/throw at a second target" takes two? Simple, it takes more effort to line up a throw at a moving target.)

Right now he's only level 3 (going on 4) so he's just doing "First turn = grapple" "second turn = throw"

The Skeleton Jam. Make a grab against a skeleton as normal; i.e. grab as action make opposed Str (Ath) vs. Dex (Acr) or Str (Ath). On a success, the skeleton is grappled. As long as it is grappled, it can be used as an improvised weapon (i.e. you don't add your proficiency bonus to attack) by a suitably savage barbarian.
When you hit a creature with the skeleton it deals club-like damage (1d6+STR bludgeoning) both to the target and to the grappled skeleton.

I think this is what I ended up doing the first time, when he used the first skeleton as a melee weapon. When he wanted to throw one, I got flustered thinking "What's the range of a skeleton?"

If the player does this more than once and makes a goodbad pun "the leg bone is connected to the HEAD bone!" consider letting them treat the attack as non-improvised (i.e. let them add their prof. bonus).

Oh, hell no. I'm already letting him do this cool thing, but no way am I going to encourage it.

Oh, and the reduced damage per attack is a cost, too, because the barbarian is probably doing more than 1d6 with his weapon.

Yes, but the damage would be to both the thrown and the thrown at skeletons, so I guess he thinks it's worth it. The first time he used this method, the skeletons weren't attacking anyway (because of the aforementioned Cleric/Paladin double team. The second time, when he wanted to throw the opponent, there were just two opponents (I think they were ghouls though, not that it makes any difference)

Thanks for all the advice. I'm happy I was actually closer than I thought, despite apparently overthinking it.

--Scott

 

[cmad1977]

Right now he's only level 3 (going on 4) so he's just doing "First turn = grapple" "second turn = throw"



I think this is what I ended up doing the first time, when he used the first skeleton as a melee weapon. When he wanted to throw one, I got flustered thinking "What's the range of a skeleton?"



Oh, hell no. I'm already letting him do this cool thing, but no way am I going to encourage it.



Yes, but the damage would be to both the thrown and the thrown at skeletons, so I guess he thinks it's worth it. The first time he used this method, the skeletons weren't attacking anyway (because of the aforementioned Cleric/Paladin double team. The second time, when he wanted to throw the opponent, there were just two opponents (I think they were ghouls though, not that it makes any difference)

Thanks for all the advice. I'm happy I was actually closer than I thought, despite apparently overthinking it.

--Scott

It's absolutely worth it.
No one remembers how much damage you do. They remember that you threw skeletons. Awesome.


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