Total Defense: did you notice?

[Eraslin]

If a character could go TD, then move, what good are Dodge and Mobility as feats?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but a character with mobility and/or dodge still has quite an advantage over someone without the feats. The character with the feats could still have up to an additional +5 to his/her AC when moving through threatened areas on the defensive. Could be quite the difference if you're the party cleric and need to pass through some nasty threatened areas to reach a downed friend.
Nevermind the usefulness of dodge/mobility when the character wishes to pass through a threatened area and still attack in the same round.

-Eraslin

 

[Wylan]

I agree, Dodge and Mobility are a great combo for attacking, but here is my point.

Cleric goes to Total Defense +4 to A/C (vs +5 for Dodge and Mobility) - moves through a threatened area - AoO from monster (Cleric still has +4 to A/C) – gets to friend – cast Quickened healing spell – still has +4 to A/C until his next turn. In this case, why would the Cleric use 2 feats to get a +1 to A/C?

 

[Eraslin]

I agree, Dodge and Mobility are a great combo for attacking, but here is my point.

Cleric goes to Total Defense +4 to A/C (vs +5 for Dodge and Mobility) - moves through a threatened area - AoO from monster (Cleric still has +4 to A/C) – gets to friend – cast Quickened healing spell – still has +4 to A/C until his next turn. In this case, why would the Cleric use 2 feats to get a +1 to A/C?

Do the bonuses from dodge/mobility and total defense not stack? I was assuming that they did, but I don't have my books nearby to check.

-Eraslin

 

[Saeviomagy]

Do the bonuses from dodge/mobility and total defense not stack? I was assuming that they did, but I don't have my books nearby to check.

-Eraslin

Well, let me see.

Dodge and mobility both grant dodge bonuses.

Dodge bonuses stack.

I think Wylan doesn't understand that fact.

 

[Spatula]

I agree, Dodge and Mobility are a great combo for attacking, but here is my point.

Cleric goes to Total Defense +4 to A/C (vs +5 for Dodge and Mobility) - moves through a threatened area - AoO from monster (Cleric still has +4 to A/C) - gets to friend - cast Quickened healing spell - still has +4 to A/C until his next turn. In this case, why would the Cleric use 2 feats to get a +1 to A/C?

That's great if the cleric happens to have a quickened healing spell memorized. If she doesn't, your trick can't be pulled off. Now, a cleric with dodge and mobility can move (+4/5 to AC) and cast a spell in the same round without needing quicken spell.

The advantage of dodge & mobility over a full defense is that dodge & mobility allow you to use your whole round's worth of actions. Full defense prevents you from performing any other standard action, or any full-round actions - you can't attack, you can't cast a spell (unless it's quickened), you can't move more than your base move, you can't run, you can't charge...

 

[Snipehunt]

Well, let me see.

Dodge and mobility both grant dodge bonuses.

Dodge bonuses stack.

I think Wylan doesn't understand that fact.

I think the question was whether total defense, dodge, and mobility all stack. Same answer, though!

 

[Hypersmurf]

It would be fun to use Quicker Than the Eye and Expert Tactician with the new 3.5 total defense. Unless I am mistaken, I think that this would also allow you to combine fighting defensively and Combat Expertise with total defense.

You're mistaken.

Both Fighting Defensively and Combat Expertise can only be used with the Attack Action or the Full Attack Action.

The extra attack from Expert Tactician is exactly that - an extra attack. It is neither the Attack Action, nor the Full Attack Action.

(And it depends on interpretation as to whether you'd get the attack in the same round you used QttE and Total Defence anyway. I say no - your opponent is never, in fact, denied his Dex bonus - but Frank, for example, says yes.)

-Hyp.

 

[Camarath]

You're mistaken.

Both Fighting Defensively and Combat Expertise can only be used with the Attack Action or the Full Attack Action.

The extra attack from Expert Tactician is exactly that - an extra attack. It is neither the Attack Action, nor the Full Attack Action.

So you are saying that the attack granted by Expert Tactician is an Extra Attack Action (that also does not AFAICS have an action type [free/standard/full]) rather than Standard Attack Action. I think that is little a bit tenuous, based on how non-specific the wording of the errata is. I think I can see where you are getting it from but the word "extra" is only used in the second sentence that deals with the attack's chronological relationship to your regular action(s) while in the first senctence which deals with gaining the additional attack it is merely referred to as a "melee attack (or anything that can be done as a melee attack)". IMO the wording of the errata is so vague that it requires a fair bit interpretation.

Well in any case there is always Shapechanging into a Choker.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So you are saying that the attack granted by Expert Tactician is an Extra Attack Action (that also does not AFAICS have an action type [free/standard/full]) rather than Standard Attack Action.

I'm saying "the attack action" is clearly defined - it's a standard action that allows a single attack.

Expert Tactician allows an extra attack. It is not the attack action.

Just as Shot on the Run can only be used with "the attack action with a ranged weapon", and Spring attack can only be used with "the attack action with a melee weapon". It's the reason you can't use SotR with Manyshot - "the attack action" is a defined term.

It's also the reason you can't use Expertise or Fighting Defensively while Charging. The Charge action is not the attack action, and it is not the full attack action.

-Hyp.

 

[Camarath]

I'm saying "the attack action" is clearly defined - it's a standard action that allows a single attack.

Expert Tactician allows an extra attack. It is not the attack action.

Well if it is not an attack action it does not appear (to me) to be any kind of action at all, since no action type other than melee attack is specified in the text.