(total frustration) There MUST be an Extra Feats Academy around somewhere here ...
- Thread starter Edena_of_Neith
- Start date
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
Edena_of_Neith said:(look of amazement)
MoogleEmpMog, congratulations!
Thus:
Character creation: take 2 flaws, gain 2 feats
Character creation: 1 feat at the start + 1 feat if human
1st level:
2nd level: Feat (as per d20 modern rules)
3rd level: Feat (as per PH 3.5 rules)
4th level: Feat (as per d20 modern rules)
5th level: -
6th level: Feat (as per PH 3.5 rules) + Feat (as per d20 modern rules)
7th level: -
8th level: Feat (as per d20 modern rules)
9th level: Feat (as per PH 3.5 rules)
10th level: Feat (as per d20 modern rules)
11th level: -
12th level: Feat (as per PH 3.5 rules) + Feat (as per d20 modern rules.)
If fighter, fighter feats stack
If wizard, wizard feats stack
If rogue above 9th level, rogue feats stack
All other class abilities stack
Not exactly. You'd have to take a d20 Modern base class every level to get all those feats, and the d20 Modern classes are somewhat weaker in terms of raw power (BAB and hit dice) than their D&D equivalents. The Fighter class is split up into Strong Hero (1/1 BAB progression but only a d8 hit dice) and Tough Hero (3/4 BAB, like a cleric, but d10 hit dice), for example.
Personally, I've found the feats, talents (minor feats/class features) and defence bonus (adds to AC as you advance in level) more than the power of the D&D classes, but they tend to contribute to a more defensively minded character.
MoogleEmpMog said:WotC's d20 Modern is the Feat Academy you asked after.
Its six Base Classes each give a feat at every even level, and its (easy-to-access) Advanced Classes give one at every third level. All of these are fully compatible with D&D/fantasy d20.
D20 Modern is Wizards of the Coast's D20-based RPG for genres OTHER than D&D ... spies, science fiction, modern fantasy (a la Poltergeist: The Legacy), and so on. I hardly see mixing that into D&D as a mainstream approach. It is like deciding to use the movement rules for chess Knights in a checkers game. Yes, both games move on a grid of alternating black and white squares, but you're not really playing checkers anymore if you borrow those rules.
At least Dragonstar was meant to mesh with D&D, and builds on the PH/DMG/MM rules directly.
Nyaricus
First Post
In Arcana Unearthed (whatever the book is, the WotC book with the aforementioned Generic Classes) there is a flaw system which you take up to two flaws for two feats at first level - no more than that (IIRC).
if d20 Modern works for you, great! Better than the dumb idea of flaws . . .
if d20 Modern works for you, great! Better than the dumb idea of flaws . . .
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
Honestly, I do not think flaws are dumb. Dangerous, yes, but not dumb.
All characters are flawed, in a sense. All classes have their weak save, and their inability to do something.
The flaws in Unearthed Arcana magnify this problem, but like any drawbacks they can be overcome by leveling and in other ways.
The key is SURVIVING long enough to overcome them.
Gaining the two extra Feats is one way of surviving.
I wasn't going to use the D20 system. I was joking.
But the Sword of Righteousness in the BOED does set a precedent. Consider that.
All characters are flawed, in a sense. All classes have their weak save, and their inability to do something.
The flaws in Unearthed Arcana magnify this problem, but like any drawbacks they can be overcome by leveling and in other ways.
The key is SURVIVING long enough to overcome them.
Gaining the two extra Feats is one way of surviving.
I wasn't going to use the D20 system. I was joking.
But the Sword of Righteousness in the BOED does set a precedent. Consider that.
Eternalknight
First Post
The easiest way of doing it is to just house rule it so you gain a feat every level. I believe Crothian is doing this with his group, and I'm pretty sure he has said it is working quite well.
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
I have never encountered any problem mixing d20 Modern and D&D classes, particularly in the direction of importing Modern to D&D. If you're willing to look into third-party d20 books, which I certainly am, why not consider Wizards' own "third-party" d20 material? :\
If for some reason you're opposed to the idea, Mongoose's OGL Conan offers an alternative Favored Class system in which you get a feat every five class levels in your favored class.
If for some reason you're opposed to the idea, Mongoose's OGL Conan offers an alternative Favored Class system in which you get a feat every five class levels in your favored class.
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
For the purposes of this thread, I was excluding house rules (and the flaws and gestalt options in Unearthed Arcana are a given already.)
I'm looking for official rules (that directly relate, unlike the d20 modern rules) to the situation.
So far, you'all have found two things that are the legitimate thing:
- The PrC bard known as the chameleon, who gains a floating feat on his 2nd level:
- The Sword of Righteousness, which allows access one feat per level for three levels (but it requires a feat that is mechanically weak to be taken first, so the benefit is really only two feats.)
But nothing else, so far.
I'm looking for official rules (that directly relate, unlike the d20 modern rules) to the situation.
So far, you'all have found two things that are the legitimate thing:
- The PrC bard known as the chameleon, who gains a floating feat on his 2nd level:
- The Sword of Righteousness, which allows access one feat per level for three levels (but it requires a feat that is mechanically weak to be taken first, so the benefit is really only two feats.)
But nothing else, so far.
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
Ok, I know I'm going to get firebombed for this, but:
What about Schools that teach the classes to characters, and thus allow them to start with a Package of Feats?
The classes are already packages, of course. This means the school was more effective, somehow, in delivering training and ability to it's students. Perhaps this is due to magic they infused in the students, or due to proximity to a holy or unholy shrine or source of magical power and/or incarnum, or even on a battlefield or some place carrying strong emotions (not taint, but nevertheless a kind of power.)
In that case, one to four feats are allowed.
These feats are above and beyond all the others allowed.
But the character does not get to freely choose what those are. He must take feat progressions, reflecting a specialty, or generalized feats, representing a certain approach.
Here are examples:
Acrobatic, Agile, Athletic, Run
Alertness, Deft Hands, Stealthy, Persuasive
Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes
Armor Proficiency Light, Armor Proficiency Medium, Armor Proficiency Heavy
Mounted Combat, Animal Affinity, Skill Focus
Dodge, Acrobatic, Stealthy
Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike
Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus
Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes
Blind-Fighting, Combat Expertise
Power Attack, Toughness
Two-Weapon Fighting, Nimble Fingers
Combat Casting, Spell Focus
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus
Eschew Materials, Spell Mastery
Extra Turning, Magical Aptitude
What about Schools that teach the classes to characters, and thus allow them to start with a Package of Feats?
The classes are already packages, of course. This means the school was more effective, somehow, in delivering training and ability to it's students. Perhaps this is due to magic they infused in the students, or due to proximity to a holy or unholy shrine or source of magical power and/or incarnum, or even on a battlefield or some place carrying strong emotions (not taint, but nevertheless a kind of power.)
In that case, one to four feats are allowed.
These feats are above and beyond all the others allowed.
But the character does not get to freely choose what those are. He must take feat progressions, reflecting a specialty, or generalized feats, representing a certain approach.
Here are examples:
Acrobatic, Agile, Athletic, Run
Alertness, Deft Hands, Stealthy, Persuasive
Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes
Armor Proficiency Light, Armor Proficiency Medium, Armor Proficiency Heavy
Mounted Combat, Animal Affinity, Skill Focus
Dodge, Acrobatic, Stealthy
Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike
Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus
Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes
Blind-Fighting, Combat Expertise
Power Attack, Toughness
Two-Weapon Fighting, Nimble Fingers
Combat Casting, Spell Focus
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus
Eschew Materials, Spell Mastery
Extra Turning, Magical Aptitude
I guess my question is why?
I've been reading some of your threads, and you haven't even played a 3E game, so why don't you play out the system as it is before trying to find the extreme cases that let you have umpteen extra feats. Half the time, I can't even find feats I really want.
I've been reading some of your threads, and you haven't even played a 3E game, so why don't you play out the system as it is before trying to find the extreme cases that let you have umpteen extra feats. Half the time, I can't even find feats I really want.
