D&D 5E Totally underwhelmed by 5e bladesinger, am I missing something?

[FormerlyHemlock]

As far as Bladesinger goes (since this is the subject) it looks like a fun class. It sits on one end of the spectrum of gish with Eldritch Knight on the other. It seems to fit more on the "fun" than "power" side of being a caster and will probably appeal more there. Kind of odd that the best cantrips for become less useful at 6th. Starts off a bit more survivable at lower levels than a lot of the other Wizard classes. A friend of mine complains that it would be good if it allowed GWF or PAM with it since to him that is the only type of melee.

Let me remark in passing that Rogue 2/Bladesinger X is a fantastically fun multiclass combination. It makes good use of the Bladesinger's Extra Attack feature (which would otherwise be a bit of a waste) because now you can cheaply grapple/prone enemies. You can even Enlarge yourself to grapple Huge enemies with a high success rate (e.g. a Str 10 Rogue 2/Bladesinger 10 with Athletics Expertise and two attacks has a 90% chance to grapple an Adult Red Dragon, and a 48% chance to grapple AND prone it), and then the Bladesinging bonus helps you keep your concentration if the enemy damages you. (BTW, prone Adult Red Dragon vs. AC 21 Bladesinger has only a 20% chance per attack to beat the Bladesinger's Shield spell--although the Wing Attack legendary action will almost certainly succeed in damaging the Bladesinger once per round.)

This is one respect in which Bladesingers have a definite edge over Bladelocks, since Bladelocks don't actually have Extra Attack and therefore cannot make multiple grapple/push attempts per turn.

 

[flametitan]

Right, thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to ask you again on these matters if I ever need to use practical tactics against my group.

That roguesinger sounds fun. If it wasn't for my own attachment to the flavour of the warlock pacts, I'd almost certainly dump my roguelock for one of those.

 

[zaratan]

I don't why a bladesinger use blink, mirror image or many others defense spells. I think the reason to choose bladesinger agaist the other is the exactly economy of spell slots for defensive spells, that let you burn in something more usefull, this is a great advantage agaist other schools. Obviusly you'll have shield, but any other wizard will have this too, but you don't burn spell slots in mage amor. Probably you'll have blur for some cases and counterspell solve great part of your ST problems.
The good Con ST for concentration is amazing if your best spells need concentration.
You don't need to be in melee all the time.
Ok, your DPR without spellslots isn't great if you compare with a fighter, but none of the wizards will be, because that's not the wizard function. But comparing the DPR of bladesinger with the other schools...

 

[PMárk]

I have a radical idea, how about a fighter/wizard who divides XP equally between both classes! As we say in the IT DBA world, what could go wrong..

Lol. Look at how's the Magus in comparison to a fighter/wizard and you'll get the answer. The Magus is a true hybrid class with abilities that strengthen that unique flavor. The Fighter/Wizard is two classes which abilities don't sync. The closest would be EK/wizard, but the problem is most of the EK's abilities which somewhat reproduce some of the Magus ones are coming in at the highest levels, so you won't get them if going with ftr/wiz evenly. The Magus has a spellbook, the EK knows a very limited number.

My opinion is that 5e so far has a 80% ftr/20% wiz and a 20% ftr/80% wiz but so far it lacks a 50/50 ftr/wiz. It has subclasses which are dabbling into the other class's territory, but it doesn't has a true hybrid class.

 

[Istbor]

Perhaps that is something they hope to put out at a later date? Or as a prestige class should those test well.

 

[pkt77242]

Lol. Look at how's the Magus in comparison to a fighter/wizard and you'll get the answer. The Magus is a true hybrid class with abilities that strengthen that unique flavor. The Fighter/Wizard is two classes which abilities don't sync. The closest would be EK/wizard, but the problem is most of the EK's abilities which somewhat reproduce some of the Magus ones are coming in at the highest levels, so you won't get them if going with ftr/wiz evenly. The Magus has a spellbook, the EK knows a very limited number.

My opinion is that 5e so far has a 80% ftr/20% wiz and a 20% ftr/80% wiz but so far it lacks a 50/50 ftr/wiz. It has subclasses which are dabbling into the other class's territory, but it doesn't has a true hybrid class.

I agree with this. I really wanted a fighter/mage built off the Paladin chasis with some cantrips thrown in. 2 attacks, up to 5th level spells (and all wizard spells available), etc. Honestly, that is what the Bladesinger probably should have, well at least in my opinion (I never really viewed Bladesingers as full casters). Though the existing class is still fun to play.

 

[neogod22]

I don't why a bladesinger use blink, mirror image or many others defense spells. I think the reason to choose bladesinger agaist the other is the exactly economy of spell slots for defensive spells, that let you burn in something more usefull, this is a great advantage agaist other schools. Obviusly you'll have shield, but any other wizard will have this too, but you don't burn spell slots in mage amor. Probably you'll have blur for some cases and counterspell solve great part of your ST problems.
The good Con ST for concentration is amazing if your best spells need concentration.
You don't need to be in melee all the time.
Ok, your DPR without spellslots isn't great if you compare with a fighter, but none of the wizards will be, because that's not the wizard function. But comparing the DPR of bladesinger with the other schools...

Why mirror image over blur? Blur adds +2 to AC but requires concentration. I usually save concentration for Slow or Haste, Mirror image does not, also, if I take a hit, the hit will most likely hit a mirror image. Seeing that 90% of the time I've actually gotten hit was on a critical, Mirror Image will soak that damage for me.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

 

[zaratan]

Why mirror image over blur? Blur adds +2 to AC but requires concentration. I usually save concentration for Slow or Haste, Mirror image does not, also, if I take a hit, the hit will most likely hit a mirror image. Seeing that 90% of the time I've actually gotten hit was on a critical, Mirror Image will soak that damage for me.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

Blur make the enemies attack with desadvantage what is better when you have high AC. You already have a great defense with shield any of those two add much, but agaist enemies that don't force ST, they will only hit you using blur with a double 20 (1 chance in 400).

Enviado de meu SM-G900MD usando Tapatalk

 

[dagger]

Lol. Look at how's the Magus in comparison to a fighter/wizard and you'll get the answer. The Magus is a true hybrid class with abilities that strengthen that unique flavor. The Fighter/Wizard is two classes which abilities don't sync. The closest would be EK/wizard, but the problem is most of the EK's abilities which somewhat reproduce some of the Magus ones are coming in at the highest levels, so you won't get them if going with ftr/wiz evenly. The Magus has a spellbook, the EK knows a very limited number.

My opinion is that 5e so far has a 80% ftr/20% wiz and a 20% ftr/80% wiz but so far it lacks a 50/50 ftr/wiz. It has subclasses which are dabbling into the other class's territory, but it doesn't has a true hybrid class.

I checked out the Magus, and now I remember the class. I never saw it used in PF but I remember when it came out. You should convert it to 5e for me and post it so we can play test it.

 

[Zardnaar]

I checked out the Magus, and now I remember the class. I never saw it used in PF but I remember when it came out. You should convert it to 5e for me and post it so we can play test it.

If anyone does this I would not mind having a look. Or the Red Mantis assassin PrC.

Magus make a 5E arcane Paladin as the chasis?