Touch attacks do damage?

[Bear]

From the 3.5 SRD

Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, the act of casting a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.

It was my understanding that touch attacks don't to damage in and of themselves... they were simply used as an attempt to 'tag' an opponent to trigger a spell 'on hand' such as a Shocking or Rusting grasp or some such spell.

Taking into consideration the bolded portion in the above quote would seem to indicate that some damage is done... A Critical Touch Attack? Unless the spell's damage being discharged is critical'd... which makes no sense to me.

Any input?

 

[hong]

Yes, you can score a crit with a damaging spell that's delivered via a touch attack. The threat range is 20, and the damage is doubled. This is first mentioned in Tome & Blood, IIRC.

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

Welcome to the boards!

For critical touch attacks, just think about Shocking Grasp'ing someone in the crotch. Critical.

TS

 

[Darklone]

From the 3.5 SRD


It was my understanding that touch attacks don't to damage in and of themselves... they were simply used as an attempt to 'tag' an opponent to trigger a spell 'on hand' such as a Shocking or Rusting grasp or some such spell.

Taking into consideration the bolded portion in the above quote would seem to indicate that some damage is done... A Critical Touch Attack? Unless the spell's damage being discharged is critical'd... which makes no sense to me.

Any input?

To answer your question: Not the touch itself deals damage, but the spell damage (in this example) is doubled if you roll a 20 and confirm your threat with a hit.

 

[Bear]

Oh, ok... Neato!

So for non-damaging spells I guess you just ignore the crit.

Another question in a similar vein, I realize, in common sense, that you can't substitue and unarmed strike when something calls for a touch attack. But I need to know, rules-wise WHY. I need to point to something and say "This is why."

Can anyone help there?

The situation: I have a monk/sorcerer who wants to use his unamed bonus and unarmed damage when casting and triggering his shocking grasp the turn he casts it. The arguement is that, by the rules, he *IS* allowed to attack with the spell the same round he casts it... why can't he use his monk ability to make it an unarmed attack with the shocking grasp?

 

[Hackenslash]

Doh !!!

Welcome to the boards!

For critical touch attacks, just think about Shocking Grasp'ing someone in the crotch. Critical.

TS

Ouch !!! Painfull....but maybe it would stimulate growth ???hehehe....could end up being the viagra for DnD...

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

Oh, ok... Neato!

So for non-damaging spells I guess you just ignore the crit.

Another question in a similar vein, I realize, in common sense, that you can't substitue and unarmed strike when something calls for a touch attack. But I need to know, rules-wise WHY. I need to point to something and say "This is why."

Can anyone help there?

The situation: I have a monk/sorcerer who wants to use his unamed bonus and unarmed damage when casting and triggering his shocking grasp the turn he casts it. The arguement is that, by the rules, he *IS* allowed to attack with the spell the same round he casts it... why can't he use his monk ability to make it an unarmed attack with the shocking grasp?

When casting a touch attack spell, the touching part is part (bleh) of the Spell casting action. If you want your monk/sorceror to activate a Shocking grasp, and punch your opponent (you could even include a stunning blow in there), you'll have to wait for next round, since the Shocking grasp charge is still active.

Round 1: Standard action: cast shocking grasp and touch adjacent enemy OR cast shocking grasp and wait for...
Round 2: Standard action: punch your opponent in the face, dealing a) unarmed strike damage b) shocking grasp damage and c) (if you want) a stunning blow.
If you were to score a critical hit on round 2, both the unarmed damage and the shocking grasp damage would be doubled.

TS

 

[Hackenslash]

Oh, ok... Neato!

So for non-damaging spells I guess you just ignore the crit.

Another question in a similar vein, I realize, in common sense, that you can't substitue and unarmed strike when something calls for a touch attack. But I need to know, rules-wise WHY. I need to point to something and say "This is why."

Can anyone help there?

The situation: I have a monk/sorcerer who wants to use his unamed bonus and unarmed damage when casting and triggering his shocking grasp the turn he casts it. The arguement is that, by the rules, he *IS* allowed to attack with the spell the same round he casts it... why can't he use his monk ability to make it an unarmed attack with the shocking grasp?

All joking apart now and to put back my serious hat on my head....The main reason is because you can not perform more than one "Attacking Action" in any given round. The casting of the spell counts as a standard action and if it happens to be a touch spell then part of the action is considered tring to touch your opponent with it. Bear in mind, that you are only touching not tring to strike to do damage with your hand, as a monk would do. So if you allowed the Monk/Sorceror to deliver his touch attack spells during the same round as he just pummeled his opponent then it would be unfair due to number of actions taken within the round. Also to get the extra Monk attacks it has to be a full round action and thus he/she would not have the time to cast the spell in the first place. However even if they opted to only have one attack then they are still only left with a move action which can not be used to cast a spell and then deliver it via touch. The only way around it rules wise, would be to allow the PC to cast the spell in one round then save it till the second round and discharge it during the standard unarmed attack. But that would mean the PC effectivly out of it for an entire round. So hope that answers your question and welcome to ENWorld, it is a great community...Bye for now.....Cheers !!!

 

[Cybern]

If you wait to hit with an unarmed strike, as Tabarnak said, you have to remember that it won't be a touch attack, and a miss ruins the spell IIRC.

Bu the way, do you have to use an action to activate a ring of shocking grasp? Got killed by a NPC monk that way...

 

[Darklone]

Depends how that ring is activated... it MAY BE a free action, usually it's a standard action though.

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