Touch of Death vs Indomitable Resolve?

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, this came up in a "quickie" random encounter with our party vs Orcus.

Orcus rolled, hit my Avenger with "Touch Of Death":

Touch of Death (standard; recharge 6) Necrotic
Reach 4; +33 vs. Fortitude; the target is reduced to 0 hit points
(resistance or immunity to necrotic damage does not apply). Miss:
The target takes necrotic damage equal to its bloodied value.

(I think Orcus has been updated through MM3 since we played this)

I responded with this:

Indomitable Resolve
The power of the gods sustains you, allowing you to ignore an
injury.
Daily Divine
Immediate Interrupt Personal
Trigger: You take damage
Effect: The damage is reduced to 0.
Published in Player's Handbook 2, page(s) 41.

The DM argued that Touch of Death is instant death, no damage. I argued that since it says you are reduced (from some value X) to zero, you have to be taking damage and thus IR would work.

Whats all our Guru's say about how this would work? Thanks!

 

[Lancelot]

If the attack hits, you don't take damage. You go straight to 0 hp. Do not pass Go; do not collect $200. There is no mention of damage in the Hit line. Contrast with the Miss line: you clearly take "damage" if you're Missed.

Consider the alternative, if you allow that Touch of Death actually does damage. Orcus hits a 1st level deva fighter. He takes necrotic damage equal to his current HP... less the deva's racial necrotic resistance 5. Orcus could never kill him with this ability. Ludicrous, and clearly not the intent of the Touch of Death power.

Sorry, but I'm with your DM on this one (...even if not for Rule 0: DM is the final arbiter on rules calls in a game).

 

[the_amnesiac]

If the attack hits, you don't take damage. You go straight to 0 hp. Do not pass Go; do not collect $200. There is no mention of damage in the Hit line. Contrast with the Miss line: you clearly take "damage" if you're Missed.

Consider the alternative, if you allow that Touch of Death actually does damage. Orcus hits a 1st level deva fighter. He takes necrotic damage equal to his current HP... less the deva's racial necrotic resistance 5. Orcus could never kill him with this ability. Ludicrous, and clearly not the intent of the Touch of Death power.

Sorry, but I'm with your DM on this one (...even if not for Rule 0: DM is the final arbiter on rules calls in a game).

Except that it says that necrotic resistance doesn't apply.

Personally, I would allow it to be negated. There are plenty of instances where they specifically use the phrase "this cannot be reduced in any way", and I think if they meant Touch of Death to work that way, they'd have used that phrasing.

 

[Lancelot]

Except that it says that necrotic resistance doesn't apply.

Aargh. True. I actually had my MM open at the time, and was looking at the similar Death Gaze ability on the bodak... which doesn't have the notation about necrotic resistance.

...which makes it even more ludicrous, come to think of it. If you're a deva, with specific necrotic resist, you can be reduced to 0 hp by Orcus's Touch of Death (because it negate necrotic resist). But you're still conscious if you have even 1 point of resist all (easily gained by any number of items, class abilities, powers and suchlike for most groups at Epic level)?

I'll maintain it's not damage. Otherwise, it'd be phrased as: "The target takes necrotic damage equal to it's current HP" or "The target takes necrotic damage equal to it's maximum HP".

 

[Mesh Hong]

I too am with your DM on this one.

Orcus's Touch of Death hit result is an effect not damage, so you would need an ability that negates a necrotic effect (or in other words grants immunity to necrotic). The miss result from the attack is a damage effect though so the Indomitable Resolve would work against that.