Tougher Monsters ~ overcoming SR & Good Saves

[Nail]

Basicly, it comes down to this:

"Don't bother with blasting spells at higher levels, or spells that allow a save. It's just not worth it."

Instead, focus on battlefield control spells, buffing spells, and de-buffing spells.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Instead, focus on battlefield control spells, buffing spells, and de-buffing spells.

A 1-in-4 chance of instantly ending the fight with a spell, or even a 1-in-6 chance can be good enough to make "save-or-lose" spells worthwhile, but I generally agree that damaging spells aren't the way to go, except for Disintegrate. The high-risk spells are particularly good in a larger party where a) others can step up if your spell fails and b) fights take a long time already and you'd like to speed things up. Summonings slow down the game in my experience, as do buffing spells (polymorph) and some battlefield control spells; keeping track of hp for each section of a Wall of Stone takes more time than rolling a single save vs. Baleful Polymorph.

 

[Fedifensor]

Basicly, it comes down to this:
"Don't bother with blasting spells at higher levels, or spells that allow a save. It's just not worth it."
Instead, focus on battlefield control spells, buffing spells, and de-buffing spells.

Well, if you do go with spells that allow a save, make sure they are area spells. If you cast glitterdust or slow on a group of foes, chances are very high that someone is going to fail the save.

For example, in our home campaign, my 10th level Sorcerer managed to acquire a +6 cloak of charisma to get CHA to 24 (16 base + 2 stat bumps + 6 enhancement bonus). That's a DC 19 save for glitterdust, and DC 20 for slow. With the +12 Will saves on the barbed devils mentioned earlier, that's a 30% to 35% chance of failing the save per creature affected. You get three or more in the radius and you should be able to stick a crippling effect on at least one opponent. Best of all, glitterdust doesn't allow SR, and it only costs you a 2nd level spell slot.

That said, I still use single-target "save-or-disable" spells. It's a lot of fun to target enemy fighters or clerics with resilient sphere, especially with GSF: Evocation to raise the Reflex save to 23. If the bad guy fails, he's out of play for the entire fight.

 

[Nail]

...keeping track of hp for each section of a Wall of Stone takes more time than rolling a single save vs. Baleful Polymorph.

Good point.

It's too bad good tactics can make for slower combats.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

When dealing with devils... prot from evil and magic circle against evil are sort of... um ... important. Wall of force stops nearly anything.

If you have a tank and/or a "flank tank" - Summon Monster V in appropriate square.

Evards Black Tentacles would be useable here as well.

For Extreme Emergencies - Polymorph Self (couple with Tenser's Transformation at later levels);

Also, you DID have enough sense to have a means of magical flight at hand? Being 20 feet off the ground goes a LONG way to stopping most size large powerful melee types.

 

[tricky_bob]

I have Spontaneous Summoner Feat. What would you recommend as a 5th level Summon?

1 Large Earth Elemental (AC18, 68hp, 2 slams +12[28d+7], DR 5/-)
or
1d3 Giant Crocodiles (AC16, 59hp, bite +11[2d8+12], Reach)
or
1d4+1 Dire Wolves (AC14, 44hp, bite +11[1d8+10], Trip [+11])

With the DR that the Devils have, I think the Dire Wolves are a little out of their depth

 

[Nifft]

1 Large Earth Elemental (AC18, 68hp, 2 slams +12[28d+7], DR 5/-)

That's the ticket. In addition to the good hit points and DR 5/-, don't forget Elemental Traits -- immunity to critical hits, disease & poison, stunning, etc.

Summon Nature's Ally spells give you early access to elementals, so abuse it!

Cheers, -- N

 

[tricky_bob]

That's the ticket. In addition to the good hit points and DR 5/-, don't forget Elemental Traits -- immunity to critical hits, disease & poison, stunning, etc.

Summon Nature's Ally spells give you early access to elementals, so abuse it!

Cheers, -- N

Yeah.
Although 1d3 Giant Crocs look nice too! I forgot to mention +21 Grapple gives them an even money shot against both the Barbed and Bone Devils (give or take 5%)

 

[Caliban]

Yeah.
Although 1d3 Giant Crocs look nice too! I forgot to mention +21 Grapple gives them an even money shot against both the Barbed and Bone Devils (give or take 5%)

Yeah, but they are animals, and so won't attack unnatural creatures unless you spend your action pushing them with handle Animal.

That's half the reason the elementals are on the list - so you can deal with undead and outsiders.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Yeah, but they are animals, and so won't attack unnatural creatures unless you spend your action pushing them with handle Animal.

That's half the reason the elementals are on the list - so you can deal with undead and outsiders.

Where did this rule come from?

DS