Toughness - How many hit points to make it worthwhile?

[Arkhandus]

Meh. +1 hp/level seems like too much to me. It's half the benefit of 2 points of Constitution, basically, and the most significant half at that. It also sucks for low-level PCs, who need the extra HP most. Which is why I relegate it usually to a third feat that requires two or three other Toughness feats as prerequisites.

 

[the Jester]

I voted that 3 hps are fine, but I have been playing with the idea of making it increase your HD one step instead. Thus taken at 1st level it gives you a definite bonus, and at the subsequent levels there is a bit of randomness thrown in - and if you choose "average" - you are getting a one or two point bonus.

This is an intriguing idea.

What would a barbarian, or other d12 HD class, gain from Toughness under this rule?

 

[Quartz]

Am I the only one who sees that Toughness, at +3 HP, is in fact already +1 HP per level for 3 levels, but all up front and only for 3 levels? And to continue getting the benefit, you spend the feat you coincidentally get every 3rd level.

 

[Nifft]

I agree that +1 hp/hd is too much, but it's the right direction.

So what I do is base it off your Fort save.

You get 1 + (base Fort save) hp, and when your Fort save goes up, you get more HP.

So a Fighter, Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Ranger or Monk would get a total of +3 hp at 1st level, +4 at 2nd level, +5 at 4th, etc.; while others (Wizard, Rogue, etc.) would get a total of +1 hp at 1st level and would have to wait until 3rd level to see their bonus go up to +2.

At 20th level, good Fort classes gain +13 total hp, while bad Fort classes gain +7 total hp.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Brain]

This is an intriguing idea.

What would a barbarian, or other d12 HD class, gain from Toughness under this rule?

2d8 like the old-school ranger at 1st level? or 1d14? or 1d30/2 round up?

 

[Quartz]

What if Toughness were a virtual extra HD? So you'd get 3 HP (average of D4, rounded up) plus your CON bonus, (or perhaps simply 0HP plus your CON bonus) plus if you were hit with a negative level, the Toughness would absorb it. You still need to make the save 24 hrs later or lose the feat, but, for instance, spellcasters wouldn't lose that vital highest-level spell even though they don't get that many HP from the feat.

 

[ValhallaGH]

It also sucks for low-level PCs, who need the extra HP most.

That's why I made my version HD + 2.
+3 hp for a first level character, exactly the same as the current feat. Increasing by another +1 hp at each level.

Given the scaling nature of d20 damage, a feat like Toughness needs to grant an hp per level to be a worthwhile boost in survivability; otherwise power attack or combat expertise or even dodge (which can keep you from taking 128 points of damage because the foe completely misses) is a much wiser investment of precious character resources.

 

[Notmousse]

I agree that +1 hp/hd is too much, but it's the right direction.

So what I do is base it off your Fort save.

You get 1 + (base Fort save) hp, and when your Fort save goes up, you get more HP.

So a Fighter, Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Ranger or Monk would get a total of +3 hp at 1st level, +4 at 2nd level, +5 at 4th, etc.; while others (Wizard, Rogue, etc.) would get a total of +1 hp at 1st level and would have to wait until 3rd level to see their bonus go up to +2.

At 20th level, good Fort classes gain +13 total hp, while bad Fort classes gain +7 total hp.

Cheers, -- N

My Ranger/Fighter/Barbarian would love that feat!

 

[XO]

Fringe Benefits

We do 1hp/lvl but we also stretch the -10 rule by the Con bonus (so a 16 Con will let you live to -13).

Just flavor...

Hardly a game breaker

How is an extra 20hp wasted at 20th level?

 

[Nifft]

My Ranger/Fighter/Barbarian would love that feat!

It's a strong argument for fractional saves and BAB.

Cheers, -- N