Toughness Variant

[Wolfspirit]

I'm not sure if this has been around for a while, but here's a variant of the feat Toughness that I thought might be interesting.

Toughness You gain 3/4 your highest level classes' hit die in hp(rounded down).
You may take this feat more than one time.

For instance:
Wizard: 3
Rogue: 4
Cleric: 6
Barbarian: 9

I think this might make the feat more viable for anything but wizards, and sticks more with the concept I have of it. I mean, would you consider a barbarian with 3 extra hp "tougher" than without?

 

[Chacal]

I think this might make the feat more viable for anything but wizards, and sticks more with the concept I have of it. I mean, would you consider a barbarian with 3 extra hp "tougher" than without?

IMO, the main problem with toughness is that it's only significant at low levels.

A 1st level barbarian with 3 more hp is tougher than without. A 12th level wizard with toughness isn't very "tougher" than another without it.

Just my 2 cents


Chacal

 

[CRGreathouse]

1. Is it retroactive? If a first-level wizard takes a Toughness and later gains level of fighter, does he/she gain 4 hp?

2. What about Toughness as a prerequisite? This helps the Dwarven Defender, for example...

 

[Al]

The problem with Toughness is that it is only ever taken at 1st level. The fix may just may it attractive to fighters as their 2nd level feat. At 3rd level and beyond, the numerical increase is so small as to be nearly irrelevant. The best for Toughness would be something that scales, although this may too powerful.
Perhaps 3hp +1hp/2 levels? This is significantly better than the original Toughness over time, makes it more useful at higher levels, without making it two powerful (still only 13hp at top level)

Your fix is a good one, but probably won't make it much more attractive. In most campaigns, only the wizard/sorceror would half-contemplate taking it, and then most don't. If you're finding wizards always take Toughness and say barbarians don't, this fix may work. Otherwise, if wizards don't take Toughness, then this is unlikely to make the other classes take it (% increase is the same).

 

[ruleslawyer]

You could also use the new Toughness feats in MotW:

Dwarf's Toughness (prereq: Fort save +5): +6 hp
Giant's Toughness (prereq: Fort save +8): +9 hp
Dragon's Toughness (prereq: Fort save +11): +12 hp

Not that this helps your Wiz12 very much...

Another option is to allow the second Toughness feat taken to bestow +6 hp, the third +9 hp, etc etc.

 

[med stud]

I think the feat is usable for PCs with your version. Nut when designing NPCs lately, I have noticed that NPC barbarians become killers with this feat; lvl 1 Orc Barbarians IMC have 18 HP without rage.
Toughness is great for low level NPCs, to let the PCs earn their XP

 

[kenjib]

If you want it to scale, perhaps using the good save bonus progression is a good method? That way the bonus increases gradually from +2 at 1st level up to +12 at 20th.

You probably don't want to let someone take it more than once if you make this change though. I think that adding up multiple +12's is out of control. A 20th human has what - 9 feats? that's 108 bonus hit points at 20th level (versus average 52 for a 20th level wizard) if he spends them all on this modified toughness. I think that's a bit much.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

My house rule for toughness is 1 hp/level, effectively a +2 Con for purposes of determining hitpoints. It can only be taken once.

 

[dvvega]

I think Toughness is meant to be taken multiple times, so those suggestions involving hit points per level are defeating the whole feat system.

If you want a tank with lots of hit points you take toughness multiple times.

A possible solution was mentioned previously, which matches to the feat from the PsH which gives more power points the more times you take it.

But this idea has been solved with the Toughness feats in MoW.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I think you should be able to trade a toughness feat for a better one (dwarf, dragon) once you can live up to the Fort requirement.