Tracking over rock. Is it too easy?

[Scion]

Now, as far as circumstance modifiers I might use?

So after all is said and done you do have modifieres that will actually change it. So in effect you do agree with me on that score. All we disagree about is just how large the modifiers might be and what those modifiers are.

Hence why I have said a chart of listing common modifiers is needed. It is just too random right now.

Your +10 for moving through a crowd would be the same as my +10 for moving through a passage that is used so often as to have literally thousands of marks everywhere. Easy enough.

Now they need something in the faq or in a dragon magazine or something

 

[hong]

Your +10 for moving through a crowd would be the same as my +10 for moving through a passage that is used so often as to have literally thousands of marks everywhere. Easy enough.

It would appear that in Scionworld, tracks that were laid down last year can make tracks laid down today harder to follow. It must be something to do with reversing the polarity of the tachyon flux.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

It must be something to do with reversing the polarity of the tachyon flux.

Okay, this one got a laugh out of me.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So after all is said and done you do have modifieres that will actually change it.

Yes, circumstance modifiers, which I'm certain I mentioned far before my last post...

So in effect you do agree with me on that score. All we disagree about is just how large the modifiers might be and what those modifiers are.

Well, it's slightly more than that. We also disagree on the necessity of including these in the core rules. IMO, that's what we have DMs for. I don't need or want a huge list of all the possible circumstance modifiers for every possible use of every skill.

Your +10 for moving through a crowd would be the same as my +10 for moving through a passage that is used so often as to have literally thousands of marks everywhere. Easy enough.

Despite his facetious delivery, I agree with Hong on this one, in that they aren't really the same. I wouldn't assign a modifier for tracking someone across a well-used room. My example was the prey making tracks simultaneously with hundreds of dancers.

I think that for most cases, the standard DCs in the book are sufficient, though in extreme circumstances (the dancers) I will assign a penalty.

Your position seems to espouse greater penalties, out of a belief that low-level characters should not be able to accomplish tracking to the degree the core rules allow. (A belief I myself do not share.)

Now they need something in the faq or in a dragon magazine or something

So long as they aren't in the core books, sure. It'd help you out, and it wouldn't hurt me in the slightest.

 

[Vraister]

Hey,
I also think a DC of 20 is just fine but thats not the reason I post.
I was thinking about the opposed checks.
Even a character with no clue about tracking can hide their tracks and increase the DC by 5.
Its probably a house rule but what do you think about this:

If you want to hide your trails you make a Wildernis Lore check and adjust the track DC by:
10 increases DC +5
15 DC +7
20 DC +9
and so on.
Only a character with the track feat can increase the DC by more than 5.

Cheers
Vraister

 

[Scion]

Obviously some sort of chart is needed. Having to judge between 1000 tracks or 0 has to have a different difficulty just from the sheer noise of all the others.

But I was just asking for a few lines of description more, even in a general sense, but numbers would be nice.

Yes we have dm's to adjust as needed, but it is good to have a basis from which to judge.

It reminds me of the old 2nd ed days where the dm would wind up saying 3 completely different rulings for the exact same scenario. It is all fine and good to change things to make things better in the campaign, but it is nice to have some sort of consistancy.

So as for now I think it is easy to read, but few will actually do it in a useful fasion:

Base material: DC X
Situational modifiers from environment: +Y (these are mostly given)
All other modifiers(could be a great deal of choices, nearly infinite): currently completely random, hopefully dms will make a good decision but they have no guide. Just a few quick lines and some sample numbers would be nice.



So as for the very first question, is it too easy to track over rock. The answer is yes it is, incredibly so, but a lot of people dont mind and they say that there are no useful modifiers to put into place. Thats fine, but it definately strikes me as being wrong. Especially not taking into account any skills of the one being tracked.

 

[Hardhead]

Just wanted to throw in my two coppers.

First, Hong was trolling.

Second, the DM should always be free to introduce situational modifiers to skill checks, even if that situation isn't explicitly spelled out under the skill entry. I can even find some examples from published WotC adventures (notably, Temple of Elemental Evil. IDHTBIFOM at the moment, but I'll make sure I post some examples later).

If you're trying to track down a corridor that is both very dusty, and very windy, causing a constant small duststorm to occupy it, there should be a (possibly major) circumstance penalty to track through it since tacks get obliterated almost instnatly.

If, in this case, there are a bunch of tracks, all relatively as fresh as the others, then the DM should feel free to throw out a minor circumstance penalty.

 

[Ferret]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but by the sounds of it it means rocks, or rocky places with scree (I like that word).

 

[DarkMaster]

Then you are saying track is always useless indoors? I certainly hope not, skills do have uses..

Never said is useless just said a 1 st level with 1 rank of survival in a castle where hundreds of people lives might have problem tracking somebody. just Yesterday night the barbaran/ranger followed an evil monk in the sewer of the city, the monk was much faster but he was still able to track him down to his hiddeout, he had to retreat because the monk joined his barbarian orc buddy's but he was easily able to track him down at fifth level, which was fun, it added tension to the game(should I continue to track with the rogue or should I go back get the two Dwarf tank and the sorcerer).

Also you mention people having to rest well the ranger also have to rest. Also to effectively track he has to move half speed while it's opponent moves full speed.

Basically what I am saying is that given enough time a tracker will get you, but time here is the issue, two days to get ready is much more than a few hours. And that is the difference between a good and a bad tracker(the time it takes you to get to your prey). Yesterday the same Barbarian/Ranger wanted to follow the track of some evil mounted warrior that passed 5 days previously in front of a city. But they had only three hours of free time before meeting another deadline. He missed the three roll and coudn't find their trace. (funny thing is that once they got to the sewer he got his roll and notice they had gone through this place).

I said you need high level to be able to track while running. My point is both low and high level should be able to track you down, but the high level tracker won't even let you close the door behind you as the low one will let the villain and his friend buff up, before he gets there.

 

[Darklone]

I am not so sure whether hong or Scion was trolling. Probably both. Intentional or unintentional, that's the question.

Ok, that was a troll as well. Scion, I just wanted to say: I see your point that you think tracking is too easy. But please remember: That's your opinion. Some others here (and yes, hong was the first) brought good examples why it's not too easy considering the average power and ability level of a D&D campaign.

Proposals such as crafted rock at DC 25 are not sufficient for you?

Btw, I got more problems with the Trackless step ability vs. Trackers. Hey, it's magic?