Tracking over rock. Is it too easy?

[Allanon]

More to the topic at hand, I consider that a DC 25 with an additional -6 penalty to the roll because of the time-pressure is about right (if they however aren't in a rush they the DC 25 check will suffice). This means that a good level 10 ranger could make it provided that there aren't any other penalty inducing factors around (like being cursed, insufficient light, etc.).

 

[Darklone]

No, I didn't mean natives in a condescending tone. I do like these guys, but considering how often some words get "intolerable", it's hard to keep up... in Germany, we call your "American Natives" still similar to Indians.

And I'm with hong on the topic of "epic" gaming.

 

[Allanon]

No, I didn't mean natives in a condescending tone. I do like these guys, but considering how often some words get "intolerable", it's hard to keep up... in Germany, we call your "American Natives" still similar to Indians.

And I'm with hong on the topic of "epic" gaming.

Hey I'm with you on the native topic but being as much on english speaking messageboards (american mostly) I couldn't help but notice that when I reread my post the word native gave me a iffy feeling. As i said it could be that's just me

btw. I'm living next door to you (country-wise that is ) so Native-Americans are Indians too as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Diirk]

More to the topic at hand, I consider that a DC 25 with an additional -6 penalty to the roll because of the time-pressure is about right (if they however aren't in a rush they the DC 25 check will suffice). This means that a good level 10 ranger could make it provided that there aren't any other penalty inducing factors around (like being cursed, insufficient light, etc.).

-6 for time pressure? what the hell? High survival should be a benefit not a detriment. From the SRD under the track feat:

"Normal: Without this feat, you can use the Survival skill to find tracks, but you can follow them only if the DC for the task is 10 or lower. Alternatively, you can use the Search skill to find a footprint or similar sign of a creature’s passage using the DCs given above, but you can’t use Search to follow tracks, even if someone else has already found them."

Search is specifically a full round action. Using survival to find trace of which door someone went through, and not even following the tracks past then should take the same amount of time with no penalty.

Whats next, are you going to start giving people -6 penalties to spot checks to see ambushing kobolds "because of the time pressure" ? And -6 ?! Even following tracks while moving at normal speed is only -5.

 

[Allanon]

-6 for time pressure? what the hell? High survival should be a benefit not a detriment.

I award penalty's for time-pressure so sue me

From the SRD under the track feat:

"Normal: Without this feat, you can use the Survival skill to find tracks, but you can follow them only if the DC for the task is 10 or lower. Alternatively, you can use the Search skill to find a footprint or similar sign of a creature’s passage using the DCs given above, but you can’t use Search to follow tracks, even if someone else has already found them."

Search is specifically a full round action. Using survival to find trace of which door someone went through, and not even following the tracks past then should take the same amount of time with no penalty.

I would apply the penalty only if the party (and thus the ranger in question) where in hot persuit behind the BBEG. Thus they are running and the -6 is more of a penalty for the missing of details at that speed combined with the need to do it as quickly as possible. Hell if they would walk normally or even take the time to do it and thus only moving at double their movement rate I wouldn't give them a penalty at all.

Whats next, are you going to start giving people -6 penalties to spot checks to see ambushing kobolds "because of the time pressure" ? And -6 ?! Even following tracks while moving at normal speed is only -5.

If they were running from a balor for instance and ran into a room filled with kobolds then yes. The spot they made when entering the room was probably taken with a penalty because of the haste with which they entered.

I'm not asking you to like it. I like to run a somewhat harder cinamatic game and thus I'm more flexible in penalty's and bonusses. I find a flat dc 20 too simple even considering their 10th level status to follow the tracks of a running BBEG in his own lair whilst running themselves.

 

[Plane Sailing]

This is dead easy for a group of 10th level characters.

Is this rule broken?

Nope, not broken. It means that someone who has got the track feat and spent their skill points actually gets to shine for once. You can always use the "DM's friend" and give +2 on the DC because the corridor is heavily travelled (and if you really want to make it harder for them -2 on their check because they are "in a hurry").

Cheers

 

[Kahuna Burger]

::shrugs:: to each their own. It is more like the rogue in the room that cannot hide trying to hide than a rope bridge covered in oil.

I'd agree. the question is not "how can I make this more difficult?" its "should this be possible?" I am a BIG fan of skill use and skill based characters, but at the same time, there is a time and place for everyhting. Tracking has lots of great applications, and can sometimes give you information that you wouldn't even know how to ask for in a spell. But my assesment is that its not the way to go in a well used interior corridor.

I don't see where people get from this single circumstance to the assertion that anyone is trying to 'nerf' a character focus. Is a fighter nerfed because he can't hit his way through a wall of force? Is a rouge nerfed because she can't hide in the middle of an empty street in broad daylight? A bard who can't bluff his way past an automated golem the same way he could a human guard? A magic user who can't scry for the thief when he doesn't know who stole the treasure or exactly what was stolen?

The fact that another character of the same level might have access to spells that could resolve the situation does seem to me somewhat relevant - it indicates other, more viable options the party may have available. Magic may be more effective in this situation, skills in another. Addressing this situation isn't an attack on the use of a skill, and saying that the player has wasted feats and skills because they don't let him be THE ONE to solve this situation? thats perposterously short sighted.

Kahuna Burger

 

[CCamfield]

I'm all for consistency in DCs regardless of level, but as far as competence goes, consider this:

My level 4 low-Wis ranger (10) has 7 ranks in Survival, for a +9 to track due to synergy bonuses. So this character at level 5, or another character with similar skills and Wisdom 12+, could take 10 and track that villain across a stone floor.

A level 10 ranger could/should probably have 13 ranks; that combined with a +2 synergy bonus or a bonus for an attribute should give at least a +15.

I guess I'm thinking that being able to track people across bare rock is great at level 10, but I wonder if level 4 isn't a bit early? Maybe the base DC for bare rock should be 25, not 20.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I can only imagine what someone with real skill would be able to achieve....

People in RL who have spent years in intensive tracking training have skills that, to the rest of us, would seem to border on the supernatural. The example of the Australian natives/whateveryouwanttocallthems is a good example, but almost certainly there were members in that community that the locals would consider master trackers. The masters almost certainly train against each other, each trying to avoid leaving readable tracks and the others trying to track them. The skill level can get frightening.

 

[silentspace]

Another thing to consider would be the nature of the corridor itself.

For a 'typical' medieval stone corridor, I'd say stick with the book and go DC 20.

For the same corridor that is vacuumed, and steam-cleaned using modern electronic appliances once/week, maybe a +2 mod?

For the same corridor that is vacuumed, and steam-cleaned using modern electronic appliances once/day, maybe another +2 mod?

For the same corridor that is vacuumed, and steam-cleaned using modern electronic appliances once/hour, maybe it will actually be easier, since it is so clean, and tracks/traces are easier to find?

For a modern 21st century corridor in a high-tech medical research laboratory that you have to go through various cleaning procedures to enter, DC 30-40?